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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    1. It takes 60 votes and I doubt if they will have 50.

    2. Of course
    Well the pressure is on and just a few short years ago DADT was a pipedream.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    1977 according to his service star.
    Well, sure, but isn't it funny watching him continually try to dodge that ancient ball?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There's nothing to deal with. Everyone just does their job. Gays and Straights don't generally have sex with each other.
    They don't huh.......Well I have seen many instances where gays made unwanted sexual advancements against straights and were discharged.........How do you explain that?
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Well the pressure is on and just a few short years ago DADT was a pipedream.
    Yeah the pressure is on for the status quo.......
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Yeah the pressure is on for the status quo.......
    Really? Hmm 20, 30 years ago I bet the Sec. of Defense would have been fired for even suggesting gays could serve.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    1. I don't thin Gay men think about women.........

    2. well that would make it 2 for 2 because women have not worked aboard ship.....
    Not sure I follow you. There was no shortage of women serving on ships in my Navy. (Well, actually, there was. Come to think of it. )

    The Department of the Navy announced today that it will begin assigning women to duty aboard ships. The action is in accord with Navy-sponsored changes to legislation governing the assignment of women contained in the recently enacted Fiscal Year 1979 Defense Authorization Bill. The action is also in accordance with the applicable judicial decision.

    <snip> Women in U.S.Navy, women on Navy ships

    There were guys onboard that I swear were more queer than a three dollar bill too. Several effeminate types too. Boy, did those guys catch hell.

    After seeing the hell and harassment they went through I always wondered WHY a gay would even WANT to serve and subject themselves to such harassment. They can't just swim home.

    In fact, I married an ET. She was a bitch and I kicked her to the curb later BUT at the time, she had tits and an ass and that's all that mattered. You know what they say, "Any port in a storm."

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The part of a homosexual man's brain which interprets pheromones is identical to a heterosexual woman. The part of a homosexual woman's brain which interprets pheromones is identical to a heterosexual man.

    It's been a while but if you would like I could dig up one of the studies I've already read on this. Please keep in mind, though, that I'm really trying to avoid a 'nature of sexuality' discussion.
    You don't have to cite studies, I already know about this, but I'm not sure how it's relevant. All it proves is that the attraction exists, but it doesn't address the fact that attractions are manageable with simple human will power. Just because pheromones work that way, doesn't mean gay man will be throwing themselves at straight men in the military. If that were the case it would already be happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's my argument that while Navy's concern is valid, it is just as manageable as having women on the ship.
    Yes but the reasons for doing so are different. One is about the right of the woman to be safe and secure from predatory sexuality within a male-dominated unit, and one is about stigmatization of someone for the nature of their sexuality. Gays would most certainly be in the minority in any unit, so removing them is not about group-predatory sexuality (i.e. protecting the gay person from being come onto), but the discomfort of the straight majority who are not even at risk. In addition to that, sexual misconduct is still sexual misconduct in the military, whether it's dealing with heterosexual interactions or homosexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If integration proves to be a problem, the military could simply assign homosexuals to bunks specifically for homosexuals only just as they do for women only. I'm not talking about creating special accommodations or even moving a single bunk on a ship, but merely assigning who sleeps where with sexual orientation in mind.
    If integration is a problem because of homophobia, then people who have a problem with the gays can simply resign from the military. They are not in the military to be activists anymore than the gays are; they are there to do a service to their country. If they can't work together because of psychological distress over their fellow soldier's sexuality - which is, in fact, irrelevant to their duties - then they need to leave. Likewise, if a gay soldier is unable to control themselves, then they need to be removed. People who put their duties second have no business being in the military.

    There is no need to make sweeping segregation policies. It can be dealt with on a case by case basis. Only if it becomes epidemic - and it won't - should general policy be considered.

    Every single argument being made here were the same arguments that were made for segregating blacks and whites in the military. It's about the discomfort of the empowered majority, and to that I say, too effing bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think we need to afford people some time to acclimate to change instead of trying to get everything we want all at once. Other militarys have gays integrated with heteros and there's no significant problem, but those militarys have had gays mixed with heteros for a very long time.
    As far as I know, in Canada, there were no problems in the beginning, just like there are no problems now. Although, the same arguments were raised by conservatives... that there would be huge issues, the sky would fall, etc. It ended up not being that way whatsoever.

    If DADT is lifted, it won't mean that suddenly every gay is out of the closet. The military is still a homophobic, hetero-normalizing, macho environment where people are trained to put their cares for humans on the way side in favor of taking orders. The perceived stereotype of what gays are contradicts that model which is where this fear comes from. The very root of it is lack of awareness that gays can be just as macho as any straight guy.

    Once DADT is lifted, this will become plainly obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If I had my way about it I would start with full integration with strict enforcement of rules of conduct, and only if a significant trend developed would I implement a back-up plan of segregating bunks.
    This would be a sensible policy. To my knowledge, this was the plan that was implemented in Canada, mostly to appease worried conservatives. There ended up being no need for segregation. I'm not saying the needs of the U.S. will be the same, but I think as long as the military emphasizes the reasons that people are there in the first place, the secondary social issues will be less important.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Really? Hmm 20, 30 years ago I bet the Sec. of Defense would have been fired for even suggesting gays could serve.
    It seems you know nothing about the chain of command.......The president says **** and trh SECDEF squates and says where and when........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Not sure I follow you. There was no shortage of women serving on ships in my Navy. (Well, actually, there was. Come to think of it. )

    The Department of the Navy announced today that it will begin assigning women to duty aboard ships. The action is in accord with Navy-sponsored changes to legislation governing the assignment of women contained in the recently enacted Fiscal Year 1979 Defense Authorization Bill. The action is also in accordance with the applicable judicial decision.

    <snip> Women in U.S.Navy, women on Navy ships

    There were guys onboard that I swear were more queer than a three dollar bill too. Several effeminate types too. Boy, did those guys catch hell.

    After seeing the hell and harassment they went through I always wondered WHY a gay would even WANT to serve and subject themselves to such harassment. They can't just swim home.

    In fact, I married an ET. She was a bitch and I kicked her to the curb later BUT at the time, she had tits and an ass and that's all that mattered. You know what they say, "Any port in a storm."
    and did you have any trouble on your ship like men and women fraternizing, women getting pregnant and having to leave the ship so that some poor guy has to do 2 jobs........That is what happens when the carriers come into the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard...........

    The big shots will tell you on the record that women aboard ship has been a winning proposition but if you talk to the chiefs and officer off the record they will tell you its been a miserable failure, that men and women aboard ship for a long period of time will get together and make babies....its the nature of the beast...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    They don't huh.......Well I have seen many instances where gays made unwanted sexual advancements against straights and were discharged.........How do you explain that?
    Nothing to explain. Women get unwanted advances all the time. They say no. Are you saying Navy men are not as adult as everyday women? And an advance is not the same as having sex. As it is dangerous and unproductive, it really doesn't pay for anyone to make such an advance, so it is hardly something that will happen often.

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