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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Gay men think like women And Lesbians think like men when it comes to sex.........
    I agree but I don't think that matters...unless you want to take women completely out of the military also.

    IMO any able bodied citizen who is willing to serve should be permitted the honor.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    The opposing arguments in this thread don't make sense.

    There are already gays serving and showering with straight men. Removing DADT won't change anything. It doesn't mean that suddenly all gays in the military will be coming out of the closet, and putting their sexuality down on the record. Many will remain in the closet. It's no one's damn business. And if they do come out, then man up, and live with it.

    Comparing the separation of men and women to the separation of gays and straights is stupid. In co-ed situations, men are the more predatory the vast majority of the time, which is why women get their separate housing. Do you seriously think one woman is going to feel comfortable among a dozen or so men, especially given the conservative nature of the military?

    Likewise, do you really think a gay man is going to jump you in the shower, in the military... or that they are going to rape you? First of all, they are surrounded by homophobes who will probably kick their asses; second, why would they? They are there to serve their country like you are.

    Grow a pair and stop making up fantasy situations where it's going to be a problem. It's not going to be. This is less about forcing gays to be out in the military and more to do with them being dismissed from service because the truth about their sexuality accidentally came out. That is a travesty. There have already been stories about men with years of good service behind them being discharged over it.

    This makes me think about men I met in the far East who always took the actions of their wives as reflections of their personal honor. Stop blaming other people for how you feel, and deal with your own immature feelings.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The opposing arguments in this thread don't make sense.

    There are already gays serving and showering with straight men. Removing DADT won't change anything. It doesn't mean that suddenly all gays in the military will be coming out of the closet, and putting their sexuality down on the record. Many will remain in the closet. It's no one's damn business. And if they do come out, then man up, and live with it.

    Comparing the separation of men and women to the separation of gays and straights is stupid. In co-ed situations, men are the more predatory the vast majority of the time, which is why women get their separate housing. Do you seriously think one woman is going to feel comfortable among a dozen or so men, especially given the conservative nature of the military?

    Likewise, do you really think a gay man is going to jump you in the shower, in the military... or that they are going to rape you? First of all, they are surrounded by homophobes who will probably kick their asses; second, why would they? They are there to serve their country like you are.

    Grow a pair and stop making up fantasy situations where it's going to be a problem. It's not going to be. This is less about forcing gays to be out in the military and more to do with them being dismissed from service because the truth about their sexuality accidentally came out. That is a travesty. There have already been stories about men with years of good service behind them being discharged over it.

    This makes me think about men I met in the far East who always took the actions of their wives as reflections of their personal honor. Stop blaming other people for how you feel, and deal with your own immature feelings.
    The basic concern behind gay men bunking with hetero men = co-ed bunks is valid. However, I think it's perfectly manageable. Enforcement of existing codes of conduct supplemented with an appropriate sleeping assignment where necessary should do the trick.

    It's certainly nothing to end a service-member's career over.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The basic concern behind gay men bunking with hetero men = co-ed bunks is valid.
    In your own words, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    However, I think it's perfectly manageable. Enforcement of existing codes of conduct supplemented with an appropriate sleeping assignment where necessary should do the trick.

    It's certainly nothing to end a service-member's career over.
    What is your definition of an appropriate sleeping assignment?

    I know this is anecdotal, but I've done volunteer programs where the men and women are separated. Of course, even though I don't go out of the way to flaunt my homosexuality in front of others, I don't hide my sexuality either. I've always roomed with men and there has been no problem.

    Segregation is not the answer. That is not the definition of what a unit is.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I agree but I don't think that matters...unless you want to take women completely out of the military also.
    Exactly! And that is why I brought up women serving earlier. All I got was "that's off topic." Maybe you can explain it better, as if it needs explaining.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    In your own words, why?
    The part of a homosexual man's brain which interprets pheromones is identical to a heterosexual woman. The part of a homosexual woman's brain which interprets pheromones is identical to a heterosexual man.

    It's been a while but if you would like I could dig up one of the studies I've already read on this. Please keep in mind, though, that I'm really trying to avoid a 'nature of sexuality' discussion.

    It's my argument that while Navy's concern is valid, it is just as manageable as having women on the ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    What is your definition of an appropriate sleeping assignment?
    If integration proves to be a problem, the military could simply assign homosexuals to bunks specifically for homosexuals only just as they do for women only. I'm not talking about creating special accommodations or even moving a single bunk on a ship, but merely assigning who sleeps where with sexual orientation in mind.

    That's assuming there's even a problem to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Segregation is not the answer. That is not the definition of what a unit is.
    I think we need to afford people some time to acclimate to change instead of trying to get everything we want all at once. Other militarys have gays integrated with heteros and there's no significant problem, but those militarys have had gays mixed with heteros for a very long time. As the US is new to the scene, after allowing gays to serve openly, some small level of segregation might be a necessary evil for the short term.

    If I had my way about it I would start with full integration with strict enforcement of rules of conduct, and only if a significant trend developed would I implement a back-up plan of segregating bunks.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Exactly! And that is why I brought up women serving earlier. All I got was "that's off topic." Maybe you can explain it better, as if it needs explaining.
    Having gay men mixed with hetero men is nothing to worry about due to the lack of mutual attraction.

    Where there might be a problem is when gay men bunk with other gay men, or lesbians with other lesbians, since that's the situation which = hetero co-ed bunks.

    My solution through managing sleeping arrangements has the advantage of there being so few homosexuals, and fewer still in the military. The introduction of women to the battle ship had a greater impact on the organizational structure of that ship then gays ever will precisely because there are far more women than gays.

    The military created completely new sections for women, so how much less is it to simply have a Sailor sleep in male bunks designated for gays?

    If we can integrate women, we can integrate gays.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Unlike you I respect my comrades in other services so I will not knock them for your sadistic amusement....Judging by your disdain for your brothers in other branches of the service I doubt if you have ever visited that wall in D.C. that has the name of 58,000 heroes on it that paid the ultimate price for their country.........Believe it or not my left wing friend there are a bunch of Navy guys names on that wall to include Corpsman, SEALS and Mekong Delta swift boat crew members, and even some supply types like me who paid that price 6 of were personal friends of mine...

    Now if you want to discuss this thread instead of talking **** I am ready otherwise don't ****ing bother me again.......
    You are the biggest drama queen I have ever seen. I bet you fit right in the Navy.

    Don't tell me about combat casualties, old man. Those that really know don't even need to talk about it. Unlike you, who brings it up every chance he gets. That should tell everyone here all they need to know.

    Just answer my question of how the Navy is apparently so distracted right now. That's what I asked. I didn't ask for an emotional diatribe, which was some lame attempt to paint me as lacking respect for the other services. If anyone on this entire forum lacks respect for others, it is you, sir.
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 02-07-10 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    You are the biggest drama queen I have ever seen. I bet you fit right in the Navy.

    Don't tell me about combat casualties, old man. Those that really know don't even talk about it. Unlike you, who brings it up every chance he gets. That should tell everyone here all they need to know.

    Just answer my question of how the Navy is apparently so distracted right now. That's what I asked. I didn't ask for an emotional diatribe, which was some lame attempt to paint me as lacking respect for the other services. If anyone on this entire forum lacks respect for others, it is you, sir.
    Calling him a drama queen while accusing him of a lack of respect doesn't do your credibility any favors

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Calling him a drama queen while accusing him of a lack of respect doesn't do your credibility any favors
    I don't get it.

    He is a drama queen.

    He respects no one.

    Those are two facts.

    What's the problem?

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