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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I wasn't doing that. You just think I was. I'm more than willing to hear other sides of the issue. That's probably why I have such a moderate or centrist position on the matter. I see both the benefits and negatives associated with DADT.
    Well then let's consider the facts one more time...

    1. This policy lead to the dismissal of 300 qualified Arab translators during a war where such translators were in short supply.
    2. It is not inconceivable that vital intelligence was missed as a result.
    3. Because that vital intelligence may have been missed, people very well could have needlessly died or were hurt.

    Now you are telling me that this policy is worth any needless deaths that may have occurred as a result and may occur in the future? You conscience is fine with national security being dictated by bias and prejudice even if it leads to people needlessly getting hurt or dying?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Well then let's consider the facts one more time...

    1. This policy lead to the dismissal of 300 qualified Arab translators during a war where such translators were in short supply.
    2. It is not inconceivable that vital intelligence was missed as a result.
    3. Because that vital intelligence may have been missed, people very well could have needlessly died or were hurt.

    Now you are telling me that this policy is worth any needless deaths that may have occurred as a result and may occur in the future? You conscience is fine with national security being dictated by bias and prejudice even if it leads to people needlessly getting hurt or dying?
    Haven't I already said that I do not favor the zero tolerance policy? Haven't I said time and again that it should be left up to the discretion of the commander? Are you purposely ignoring my arguments?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Haven't I already said that I do not favor the zero tolerance policy? Haven't I said time and again that it should be left up to the discretion of the commander? Are you purposely ignoring my arguments?
    It's already up to the discretion of the commander. You are advocating no change.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Sorry if my reasons don't help your cause in the way you would like....

    Tough XXXX, deal with it.......

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It's already up to the discretion of the commander. You are advocating no change.
    Is it? Can you show me where it says that?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Oh, I've also said, many times, that I think DADT can be repealed almost immediately in non-combat MOS's. That would include your translators...

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Is it? Can you show me where it says that?
    Easy. The commander gets to decide what he reports and what he doesn't report. The fact of this is in the numbers. As the war has gone on longer and longer, and the number of men available has shrank, the number of gays who are reported and dismissed is getting fewer and fewer. They just can't afford to lose vital assets. Of course, it didn't bother them earlier on when they dismissed men they could really use now.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Oh, I've also said, many times, that I think DADT can be repealed almost immediately in non-combat MOS's. That would include your translators...
    But that isn't your position. If you wanted to argue that infantry units should still have a DADT policy, but every other unit should not, then you might be a able to make a decent argument, but your position is that DADT should exist for the whole military. Frankly, if men who were serving in a combat capacity turned out gay and were moved to a different division, it would be considerably more reasonable than dismissing them from the whole military.

    Heck, women make better fighter pilots because of their superior dexterity and body fat distribution which serves to help them cope with higher G forces than men, but they aren't allowed to be fighter pilots.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-31-10 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Easy. The commander gets to decide what he reports and what he doesn't report.
    No, the commander does not get to decide what parts of the UCMJ he wants to enforce and which parts he doesn't. He can ignore the UCMJ but he does not have the legal authority to do so. I would alter the language of the UCMJ so that it states explicitly a commander has discretion.

    The fact of this is in the numbers. As the war has gone on longer and longer, and the number of men available has shrank, the number of gays who are reported and dismissed is getting fewer and fewer. They just can't afford to lose vital assets. Of course, it didn't bother them earlier on when they dismissed men they could really use now.
    Ummm, I'm pretty sure the military has been consistently meeting or exceeding its recruitment quotas. Do you have any evidence that would suggest otherwise?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    But that isn't your position. If you wanted to argue that infantry units should still have a DADT policy, but every other unit should not, then you might be a able to make a decent argument, but your position is that DADT should exist for the whole military.
    Dude, no offense, but are you retarded? I just told you what my position is and you simply told me that, no, that's not my position. How are you going to tell me what my position is?

    I'll say it again: I support the repeal of DADT in non-combat units. I also support altering the language of the UCMJ so as to provide infantry unit commanders with the legal authority to exercise discretion in the enforcement of DADT.

    We clear?

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