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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Just like there is not suppose to be racism in the military. It has been 40 yrs since I was in but I bet most chow halls the blacks sit on one side and the whites sit on the other.
    No, it's not like that anymore. Different races actually mesh better in the military than the civilian world, I think. But there is still homophobia, that's for damn sure. I mean, a lot of Marines in my company called me a fag because I was once ordered by a senior Marine to say, "I'm gay", which I did. They never let me live that one down...

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I simply don't see how homophobia is any greater a justification for keeping gays out of the military than sexism was for keeping women out or racism was for keeping African Americans out. If it has presented any major problem to the 24 other countries that had allowed gays to openly serve, then I might be more concerned, but it seems to me that this is simply a bunch of people saying to let their prejudices and biases dictate the terms of national security and uniform conduct.
    Homophobia is a horrible justification for keeping DADT, but what that tells me is more time is needed to rid ourselves of the policy. We have made tremendous progress in the area of gay rights in this country, but not everything can happen as quickly as we like.

    A few decades ago gays were immediately discharged from the military for their sexuality. No exceptions. Dishonorably discharged. Now they have to keep their sexuality hidden, but they may still serve.

    A few decades before that gays were court martialed and imprisoned if they were discovered. I believe the maximum sentence was 5 years.

    A few decades before that gays were considered mentality insane.

    My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
    Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I presented a video of a guy with over a decade of experience disagreeing with you. Frankly, the problem with personal experience, is it can differ from person to person. That is why personal experience is not considered objective.
    1. Not all units are the same. That's why I think DADT should remain in place with discretion left to the commanders. If it's not a problem, then there's no need to kick them out.

    2. He might not have been an infantry Marine. Not everyone is a grunt, you know...

    So what makes your experience so much more valid that the guy who I presented in that video?
    It doesn't. I'm just saying it's not as black and white as you'd like it to be. What worked for his unit wouldn't work for the unit I was in.

    To the contrary, I don't think prejudice and bias should dictate the terms of national security.
    I think national security should dictate the terms of national security. If DADT serves that end, then it should remain in place.

    The fact that you have to use the word "agenda" when referring to a gay issue, kinda dispels any illusion that you are anything but partisan on this issue.
    You really are making no sense at all. What do I have to be partisan about? You think I hate gays or something?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
    Hell, I'm not even saying I'm definitely right. I'm just telling you what I experienced. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I've yet to see anything that would prove this is the case. In the absence of evidence, I must differ to the old adage:

    If ain't broke, don't fix it.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    Homophobia is a horrible justification for keeping DADT, but what that tells me is more time is needed to rid ourselves of the policy. We have made tremendous progress in the area of gay rights in this country, but not everything can happen as quickly as we like.

    A few decades ago gays were immediately discharged from the military for their sexuality. No exceptions. Dishonorably discharged. Now they have to keep their sexuality hidden, but they may still serve.

    A few decades before that gays were court martialed and imprisoned if they were discovered. I believe the maximum sentence was 5 years.

    A few decades before that gays were considered mentality insane.

    My point being that we've made a lot of progress. Maybe it's okay if the removal of DADT takes a little longer. Give some of our service members a little more time to not be so homophobic.
    Whoever said that the policy had to end tomorrow? There will be a gradual change if the policy is canceled. It isn't going to be initiated overnight.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Hell, I'm not even saying I'm definitely right. I'm just telling you what I experienced. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but I've yet to see anything that would prove this is the case. In the absence of evidence, I must differ to the old adage:

    If ain't broke, don't fix it.
    Maybe it is because you ignore all evidence to contrary, just like you ignored that video.

    And it is certainly broken when 300 qualified translators are dismissed from the military just because they are gay during a war when there is a shortage of Arab translators. Imagine all the intelligence that could have been missed as a result and how many lives may have been saved with that intelligence.

    That is what you get when you let prejudice dictate the terms of national security. People may have needlessly died because of this policy, but you could care less.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-30-10 at 11:15 PM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You really are making no sense at all. What do I have to be partisan about? You think I hate gays or something?
    I think you hate the idea of gays serving openly in the military.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This isn't helping. Nobody should be worried about gays trying to hit on them during training or combat. This is just a silly homophobic thing to say and undermines the credibility of valid objections to the repeal of DADT. If you're that worried about gay guys, then maybe you should get some help....
    Thank you for bolstering my position....
    Loathing is not fear.....
    I'm not worried about gay guys, just don't hit on me or publicly display your disgusting behavior......
    As a straight guy, I can tell you DADT works for me.....

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most men could care less one way or the other. Nice projecting your own homophobia though. Or do you actually have any statistics to back up that assertion?
    PFFFT.......
    I won't offer one iota of statistics....
    Try as you will, I will not accept homosexuality as anything but deviant & unnatural.....
    Do it if you must, but I don't want to see it or & am tired of hearing about it....
    I'm sure you didn't ask to be gay, no one said life is fair......

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You base your entire argument on a personal assumption. That is not objectivity and I find it hilarious that you expect people to consider your subjective opinion to be anything but subjective. But assuming you were right, then its clear that our military has a serious flaw in its professionalism that needs to be amended first with the end of this policy.

    Most people are comfortable around gays, and considerably more polls than the one 70's guy presented indicates that much. Not that I think opinion polls should be used to dictate matters of national security.

    The fact of the matter is you have no objective argument for keeping this policy, and so you are going to attack other people's objectivity to make up for it.
    How many people need to have a 'subjective feeling' before it is not considered subjective?.......

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