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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

  1. #361
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Heh, we had a yeoman who we knew full well was gay(and this was before DADT). He was fairly well liked and never a problem for any one. Even our skipper knew he was gay.
    All Yeoman are gay.

    Nah I'm kidding.

    Only about half of'em.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You excoriate me for reading too much into your statements
    Wrong. I called you on your lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    and then confirm my suspicions by explicitly stating what I said your were implying.
    Wrong again. I implied nothing. What happened is, you lied by claiming I said something that YOU actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Okay, so we "educate them" and if they don't get educated then we kick them out of the military ...

    How are you going to tell if your education program has worked?
    Duh. By observing whether or not our soldiers are able to act like adults and follow the orders they've been given without question, variation, or hesitation.

    What do we do with soldiers who get drunk on duty? Soldiers who steal from the commissary? Soldiers who are insolent or refuse to follow their commanding officer's orders? Male soldiers who rape female soldiers? In most cases, we educate them as to the error of their ways, and give them a chance to toe the line. If they can't, we throw them out, dishonorably. This is nothing new.

    The only way to end past unacceptable behavior is to refuse to allow it to exist going forward, and some form of punishment is the result of any breach of military rules. Isn't it? Again, this is nothing new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    it's no surprise that you would come up with such naive solutions...
    Ok, Colin Powell. DADT has been rescinded. I've offered my ideas. You've offered none. Why don't you tell us how you'd handle soldiers who will not or cannot adhere to the rules/orders they've been handed?

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Wrong. I called you on your lies.
    It wasn't a lie. It was an ignorant statement that turned out to be false. But I have no problem admitting that.

    I made an ignorant and false statement!!! AHHHHH!!!!



    Wrong again. I implied nothing. What happened is, you lied by claiming I said something that YOU actually said.
    Nevertheless, you confirmed my suspicions. Your solution would be to kick them out. That would be detrimental to unit cohesion, which would result in more deaths. I'm disturbed that you would sacrifice lives for a stupid political agenda.

    Duh. By observing whether or not our soldiers are able to act like adults and follow the orders they've been given without question, variation, or hesitation.
    Hahaha! I'm sorry, but I just can't help but laugh at your solutions. You really know nothing about the military, much less the infantry. I'm sure you'd make a fine platoon commander...

    Observe them? How are you going to do that? There's about 140 Marines in an infantry company and typically six officers to supervise them all. You can't be around all of them all the time. Like I said, it doesn't have to be outright defiance. We can make your life hard without breaking any rules.

    What do we do with soldiers who get drunk on duty? Soldiers who steal from the commissary? Soldiers who are insolent or refuse to follow their commanding officer's orders? Male soldiers who rape female soldiers? In most cases, we educate them as to the error of their ways, and give them a chance to toe the line. If they can't, we throw them out, dishonorably. This is nothing new.
    Those are examples of outright rule-breaking. Suppose the grunts don't openly defy the new policy? Suppose they just use acceptable methods to make the gay guy's life that much more difficult. Suppose they ostracize him. Suppose they call him names when no one is around. Suppose they undermine his authority behind his back. Suppose they spread rumors about him. Suppose they don't act like you assume they will...then what, oh brilliant commander Glinda? How will you solve these problems?

    The only way to end past unacceptable behavior is to refuse to allow it to exist going forward, and some form of punishment is the result of any breach of military rules. Isn't it? Again, this is nothing new.
    In other words, radically alter a long-standing and effective military policy in the midst of two wars regardless of the tension and friction it may cause. I think we got it...

    Ok, Colin Powell. DADT has been rescinded. I've offered my ideas. You've offered none. Why don't you tell us how you'd handle soldiers who will not or cannot adhere to the rules/orders they've been handed?
    I would avoid the situation entirely by not repealing DADT in the first place.

    I would wait until peacetime and commission a comprehensive and robust analysis of DADT, and act upon the recommendations of my commission.

    You, on the other hand, just want to let the cat out of the bag and see what happens. You haven't even thought about the consequences of your decision and offer nothing but ill-conceived, reactive solutions to problems that could have been avoided in the first place. Really, you're quite clueless, madam.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-30-10 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I would avoid the situation entirely by not repealing DADT in the first place.
    You're wimping out. That's not the scenario that you presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I agree, they [straight soldiers] should be willing to [ignore the sexual preferences of gay soldiers], but a lot of the infantry folks won't, so where does that leave us? Just kick out all the conservative Christians and headstrong alpha males?
    This is the scenario: DADT has been rescinded. How would you handle the change of military rule, and whatever results from that change among the rank and file?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I would wait until peacetime and commission a comprehensive and robust analysis of DADT, and act upon the recommendations of my commission.
    Again, you're wimping out. That's not the scenario that you presented.

    This is the scenario: DADT has been rescinded. How do you handle the change of military rule, and whatever results from that change among the rank and file?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You haven't even thought about the consequences of your decision
    And you haven't offered your solution for others to pick apart. I'm interested in your brilliant insights on the matter. Please share.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    and offer nothing but ill-conceived, reactive solutions to problems that could have been avoided in the first place.
    You still haven't offered your solution for others to pick apart. I'm interested in your brilliant insights on the matter. Please share.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Well it took awhile but it always happens.....when you are losing the debate you start to resort to name calling with anyone who has a difference of opinion then you...What is ironic is you call us the intolerant ones when it is you that will not allow a difference of opinion.....sad so very sad..........
    What difference of opinion? The military has no logical basis by which to deny gays and lesbians the right to serve openly. As has been said, our servicemen and women can serve fine with gays and lesbians serving openly from other countries without decaying unit cohesion, and gays and lesbians can serve in our military well, even if they don't do so openly. The only argument you can make is that gays and lesbians shouldn't serve openly because it would make you uncomfortable to realize they are around you. That by definition is homophobia.

    You are afraid of gays somehow hurting the military, even though you can't present any evidence aside from your own personal discomfort to support the assertion. Irrational and unsubstantiated fear of homosexuals is homophobia last I checked.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-30-10 at 06:20 PM.

  6. #366
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What difference of opinion? The military has no logical basis by which to deny gays and lesbians the right to serve openly. As has been said, our servicemen and women can serve fine with gays and lesbians serving openly from other countries without decaying unit cohesion, and gays and lesbians can serve in our military well, even if they don't do so openly. The only argument you can make is that gays and lesbians shouldn't serve openly because it would make you uncomfortable to realize they are around you. That by definition is homophobia.

    You are afraid of gays somehow hurting the military, even though you can't present any evidence aside from your own personal discomfort to support the assertion. Irrational and unsubstantiated fear of homosexuals is homophobia last I checked.
    Do you even read the posts in the thread at all? The reasons why have been mentioned over and over again..........

    Go back and read the thread.......Un believeable!!!!!
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 01-30-10 at 06:25 PM.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Do you even read the posts in the thread at all? The reasons why have been mentioned over and over again..........

    Go back and read the thread.......Un believeable!!!!!
    I have read the thread. The arguments are summed up exactly as I just spelled them out. You are afraid of gay people somehow hurting the military despite a lack of evidence or reason to support it. An irrational and unsubstantiated fear of gay people is, by definition, homophobia.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The military has no logical basis by which to deny gays and lesbians the right to serve openly.
    I don't think you nor Glinda ever addressed the HIV risk issue, just because you refuse to address such logical basis doesn't mean there isn't any.

    Again, the HIV/AIDS stats so disproportionately staggering in this nation, how can it not be addressed?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    I don't think you nor Glinda ever addressed the HIV risk issue, just because you refuse to address such logical basis doesn't mean there isn't any.

    Again, the HIV/AIDS stats so disproportionately staggering in this nation, how can it not be addressed?
    Because it doesn't fit into the gay agenda.....

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    I don't think you nor Glinda ever addressed the HIV risk issue, just because you refuse to address such logical basis doesn't mean there isn't any.

    Again, the HIV/AIDS stats so disproportionately staggering in this nation, how can it not be addressed?
    Forgive me, but how does it relate to DADT? Yes, Men who have unprotected anal sex with Men are proportionately higher in contracting HIV, but that is primarily an issue of promiscuity and unprotected anal sex, and has nothing to do with sexual orientation in itself. A monogamous gay couple, in which both partners are clean, cannot possibly give each other HIV.

    Furthermore, the argument does not extend to lesbians who are among the lowest risk groups for contracting HIV.

    So I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make, but I'm sure it is just as illogical as all the others you make.

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