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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is the last post I'll make on this because now you're just getting stubborn and I have to take my kid to the clinic. But please, I beg you to try and read my post and understand what it is I'm saying :

    What people have stated is that gays already are in the military. They already spend 16 hours a day working alongside straights, they already shower with straights, the already eat with straights, sleep alongside straights and in the majority of cases zero incident occurs.

    What people have stated is that if it is found that a member serving is gay, that should not be grounds for expulsion because their sexuality does not affect their job performance or that of anybody around them. If a discrepancy does occur, they should be treated no different than any other member of the armed forces. But the fact that they are gay should not be enough to kick them out.



    As far as meeting constitutional requirements that is laughable. A law can be found to be unconstitutional after it has been passed.
    All them alreadys but they don't mean squat because they are not serving openly in the U.S. Navy and that is what this and DADT is about.......Openly serving!!!!!!!!
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You don't understand yet do you? People are saying that how a professional behaves should still be top priority. What should be removed is the rules which make it possible to remove somebody from the military simply for being gay when no incident has occurred. If anything DADT is anti-constitutional. The U.S. government would never fire a federal employee for being gay. The fact that it allows this for the military is quite ridiculous and illogical.
    The problem is, you are demanding that people accept something that WILL cause problems in the ranks. Oh sure, eventually it will even out and the problems will become minor, but the issue here is... is it worth it for a small percentage of the population to be allowed to serve in the face of the problems it WILL cause?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Bull. I said what I had to say. You added your own crap and called it mine.
    I admitted that I made a mistake, so drop your self-righteous 'tude because you're not exactly the model of intellectual honesty on these boards...

    You educate them and expect them to act like the ****ing adults they're supposed to be, to follow their orders and not deviate from them for any pansy "personal reasons." Aren't our military men and women supposed to be the greatest fighting force on the planet? Jesus. I'd be ashamed and afraid to call myself a member if there are so many delicate flowers on the team.
    Educate them?

    What do you propose? Some lovely seminars? Haha! I'd love to see how those went over.

    I know what you said, but it had absolutely no connection to me or anything I've said. How about next time you simply ask your questions and let others answer on their own?
    I asked the question but you didn't answer. Either way, I admitted that I read too much into your statements. It's not really a big problem for me to admit when I'm wrong. Can't say the same for certain others...

    There. I knew you could do it. Here's my take on the matter:

    You educate them and expect them to act like the ****ing adults they're supposed to be, to follow their orders and not deviate from them for any pansy "personal reasons." You give them strict instructions and allow for one or two "oopsie" moments, so no one can cry foul about how awful and harsh it is to have to suddenly behave like a grown up. After that, they're out. If it means we ****can a bunch of bad apples, so be it. Do we really want a bunch of whiny and/or violent homophobes on the force anyway?

    Just do your damned job and get over yourself.


    Oh my god...this is too good. You excoriate me for reading too much into your statements and then confirm my suspicions by explicitly stating what I said your were implying. You couldn't make this up...

    Okay, so we "educate them" (laff!) and if they don't get educated then we kick them out of the military (like I said you would!).

    How are you going to tell if your education program has worked? What if their intolerance is more sinister than just outright defiance? You think the only problem is going to be name-calling or fights? You don't know anything about the military, so it's no surprise that you would come up with such naive solutions...
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-30-10 at 03:59 PM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Except for all the gays and lesbians that are sleeping and showering with them on their own ship that they just don't know about because they aren't allowed to serve openly.

    I've figured it out from reading your posts Navy. DADT works for you because it allows you to pretend there are no gays currently living on board ships. That is hilarious!

    The only difference that repealing DADT will have is that all the gay people who are currently serving in secret will be allowed to serve openly.
    Hey I know there are gays in the U.S. Military, thousands have been kicked out since DADT was installed....If you read the whole thread I even cited a case where I was a witness to a gay guy making unwanted advances against a shipmate.

    Nice try though............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Hey I know there are gays in the U.S. Military, thousands have been kicked out since DADT was installed....If you read the whole thread I even cited a case where I was a witness to a gay guy making unwanted advances against a shipmate.

    Nice try though............
    Alright then, let's be clear on something.

    1. You don't have a problem with our service people serving alongside openly gay people from other countries.
    2. You recognize that there are gay people serving in the military, just not openly.
    3. You support the DADT policy on the grounds that allowing those gay servicemen and women to serve openly would be a dangerous social experiment.

    How hilarious. You are making an argument that the military should be free to be homophobic even though there are gay men and women putting their lives on the line just like any of the straight men and women would be.

    That is all your argument really comes down to and you know it.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    We had a few cases on the Inchon. We had a BM2 get out, and right after he got out he told everyone he was gay. No one knew while he was in, and no one really cared after he was out. We WERE a tad shocked though.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    The problem is, you are demanding that people accept something that WILL cause problems in the ranks. Oh sure, eventually it will even out and the problems will become minor, but the issue here is... is it worth it for a small percentage of the population to be allowed to serve in the face of the problems it WILL cause?
    The point is, and this is the overwhelming point, is that those of us arguing for the repeal are saying that there is zero evidence there will be any significant problems. Sure, there are a few, always are. But those few problems can be easily handled, and if handled well, it will cease to be a significant problem. Navy pointed out, accurately, that racial incidents in the military are rare, and they are rare because when the rules changed, every one knows there is no tolerance. Zero tolerance does not mean no one breaks the rules, but those who do don't have an impact on readiness. The military has a zero tolerance policy for drugs, which does not 100 % eliminate drug use, but it is low enough not effect military readiness.

    I understand your point, and appreciate that you worded it in a respectful manner, but I think your worries, while sincere, are without merit. The attitudes in the military these days is rapidly evolving towards acceptance already, and looking at other countries that have already allowed openly gay people to serve shows us that it is unlikely to be a problem, and offers us much data in what small problems to look for, and how best to handle them.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    We had a few cases on the Inchon. We had a BM2 get out, and right after he got out he told everyone he was gay. No one knew while he was in, and no one really cared after he was out. We WERE a tad shocked though.
    Heh, we had a yeoman who we knew full well was gay(and this was before DADT). He was fairly well liked and never a problem for any one. Even our skipper knew he was gay.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Alright then, let's be clear on something.

    1. You don't have a problem with our service people serving alongside openly gay people from other countries.
    2. You recognize that there are gay people serving in the military, just not openly.
    3. You support the DADT policy on the grounds that allowing those gay servicemen and women to serve openly would be a dangerous social experiment.

    How hilarious. You are making an argument that the military should be free to be homophobic even though there are gay men and women putting their lives on the line just like any of the straight men and women would be.

    That is all your argument really comes down to and you know it.

    Well it took awhile but it always happens.....when you are losing the debate you start to resort to name calling with anyone who has a difference of opinion then you...What is ironic is you call us the intolerant ones when it is you that will not allow a difference of opinion.....sad so very sad..........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Heh, we had a yeoman who we knew full well was gay(and this was before DADT). He was fairly well liked and never a problem for any one. Even our skipper knew he was gay.
    Thinking someone is gay and proving it is another matter...there are always sailors who have a feminine nature and you might suspect it.............If the Captain of your ship knew this guy was gay and could prove he was peforming sex acts on ship mates and does not bring this guy up on charges it is a viloation of the UCMJ and you captain should ne charged with the violation........


    How would you know that your captain knew he was gay?
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 01-30-10 at 04:39 PM.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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