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Thread: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    You know what, you're one of the few people I've ever talked to that has answered those types of questions honestly. Most people try desperately, twisting themselves into knots, to try and avoid using the word homophobia or saying anything bad about our military.

    I appreciate you admitting that homophobia is substantial. And yeah my use of "rampant" was probably a bit much there. But you knew what I meant.
    Thank you for being reasonable.



    So now comes the next step. Should we try to find a way to limit and eventually remove that homophobia from our military? I obviously think we should. We risk losing some very good people because of it.
    I suppose, but I'm not sure how we would go about it exactly. More seminars and briefs certainly aren't the answer. Every grunt hates those things with a passion, and nobody is going to be talked out of being homophobic.

    Honestly, I think the only good option is to let the generals address this issue in peace time. I would want them to conduct a robust analysis when they are able.

    My opinion is that if someone wants to risk putting their body in harm's way, deal with the travel, the never ending BS, the all powerful hierarchy, and then serve in the defense of this great nation.... well they should be able to do all of that and not worry about getting kicked out because someone found out they were gay.
    I think the zero-tolerance policy can be immediately done away with in all branches and units. Commanders can exercise discretion, but they should still have the option. Like Jall, I don't want a bunch of gay men thinking it's all good to come out to their units before they ship off to a combat zone. I'm not saying stray bullets will find their way into gays' backs, but it can certainly create friction, which puts everyone at increased risk.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh, do you? Obama is the "pure" politician amongst the thousands? The Gay vote is everyone that has anything to do with any gay in the U.S. of A. Regardless, he relies upon the military support for his international issues and he will not rock the boat past his words of comfort to gay America.
    Yeah, like the military is somehow going to revolt, or stop doing as ordered because he repeals DADT.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yeah, like the military is somehow going to revolt, or stop doing as ordered because he repeals DADT.
    Clinton relied largely on civilian counselors because the Pentagon gave him the bare minimum. The Pentagon argued and fought with him when it came to deployment and international mission.

    Like it or not, the military is not an entity of slaves and they do hold a very large political power base for the White House. When the White House needs mission support they rely upn the military and when the military offers the bare minimum it makes it that much harder on the White House to make decisions. This is a fact and it happened throughout the Clinton years.

    If opening the flood gates to homosexuals is such an easy thing to do why has Obama looked the other way after making such bold promises over a year ago? In another year, you and I will have the same argument...much like we did last year.

    Revolt? Think beyond the simplicity of things.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-29-10 at 12:58 AM.

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Thank you for being reasonable.





    I suppose, but I'm not sure how we would go about it exactly. More seminars and briefs certainly aren't the answer. Every grunt hates those things with a passion, and nobody is going to be talked out of being homophobic.

    Honestly, I think the only good option is to let the generals address this issue in peace time. I would want them to conduct a robust analysis when they are able.



    I think the zero-tolerance policy can be immediately done away with in all branches and units. Commanders can exercise discretion, but they should still have the option. Like Jall, I don't want a bunch of gay men thinking it's all good to come out to their units before they ship off to a combat zone. I'm not saying stray bullets will find their way into gays' backs, but it can certainly create friction, which puts everyone at increased risk.
    Well the point about creating friction during war time is about the best one I've heard. And yeah Jall brought it up earlier in the thread too. That's a point of serious concern.

    I KNOW it'll cause friction. Any change does. And especially change in a system that is as rooted in tradition as the military. So maybe Obama waits until the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq end. Of course who knows when that will be.

    I don't know if the friction will ever reach the level of straights shooting gays. I think it'll be subtle and sneaky, just like some racism was and still is.

    I'm not even sure Obama's got the stones to end it. It will probably just be one of those things that slowly becomes a non-issue as time goes by and the generations become less concerned about an individual's sexual orientation.

    And I agree with the elimination of the zero-tolerance policy and giving Commanders discretion to interpret the laws and regs. That makes sense.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh, do you? Obama is the "pure" politician amongst the thousands? The Gay vote is everyone that has anything to do with any gay in the U.S. of A. and anyone that thrives on the idea of perfect equality and utopia within society. Regardless, he relies upon the military support for his international issues and he will not rock the boat past his words of comfort to gay America.
    No. Obama is a Democrat. The gay vote with Democrats is like the military vote for Republicans. It is not going anywhere any time soon regardless of how much they screw up. Seriously. The gay vote with Democrats is as locked down as the black vote. It has nothing to do with purity but how each party treats its voting blocks. Democrats as a rule basically support gay rights. More so than Republicans. Gays recognize this. While Democrats support giving gays visitations rights, Republicans have opposed it. While Democrats support at the very LEAST gay civil unions with the same recognition as marriage, Republicans have stood in its way. While Democrats support gays adopting children, Republicans oppose it. It is a very general rule of thumb. But that is how it work. If you're a Democrat and in politics, chances are you don't have to look too hard for the gay vote.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-29-10 at 01:23 AM.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. Obama is a Democrat. The gay vote with Democrats is like the military vote for Republicans. It is not going anywhere any time soon regardless of how much they screw up. Seriously. The gay vote with Democrats is as locked down as the black vote. It has nothing to do with purity but how each party treats its voting blocks. Democrats as a rule basically support gay rights. More so than Republicans. Gays recognize this. While Democrats support giving gays visitations rights, Republicans have opposed it. While Democrats support at the very LEAST gay civil unions with the same recognition as marriage, Republicans have stood in its way. While Democrats support gays adopting children, Republicans oppose it. It is a very general rule of thumb. But that is how it work. If you're a Democrat and in politics, chances are you don't have to look too hard for the gay vote.
    Just goes to show how people will sell out their country over the smallest issues.
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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Its easy for a bunch of "feel good Liberals"to say hey let them serve openly.....They are not in the military...No skin off their ass........They don't have to live in close quarters with men and women who are physically attracted to them........Sleep in bunks aboard ship that are about a foot apart..........Shower with them........

    In my 20 years in the Navy I have seen violations over and over again...I actually don't blame the gay guys or women.......I equate it to a straight male being put on a ship with only beautiful women...Undressing with them, living in very close quarters, showering with them......I know I could not control myself under those conditions.........I truly doubt if any man could.......


    If this thing is approved there will be a mass exodus of straight senior petty officers and Chiefs.......You can't force this experimentation down peoples throats.....
    They already do Navy....or are you naive enough to believe that gay people don't already serve in the military.

    The only difference is whether they can be honest about it.


    As a straight man, I would think that I would prefer to know who was gay and who wasn't gay if I were overly concerned with someone seeing me naked. At least that way....I could take whatever actions I deemed necessary not to expose myself.

    I guess you would prefer that people lie and would prefer exposing yourself to everyone. Right?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    ......I know I could not control myself under those conditions .....
    Then you seriously have a VERY VERY VERY big problem.

    If you wouldn't be able to control yourself being around a beautiful woman and would immediately engage in sexual assault and/or rape because of your inability to control yourself....you need to see a psychologist.

    Gay men and women have been serving in the military for a long long time without immediately raping everyone that they are attracted to.

    I guess you just proved one thing Navy. Gay men and women have much more control over themselves and their behaviors than you do.

    Now which person do you think would be a better person for the military?

    A person who can control themselves? Or a person who can't?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Then you seriously have a VERY VERY VERY big problem.

    If you wouldn't be able to control yourself being around a beautiful woman and would immediately engage in sexual assault and/or rape because of your inability to control yourself....you need to see a psychologist.

    Gay men and women have been serving in the military for a long long time without immediately raping everyone that they are attracted to.

    I guess you just proved one thing Navy. Gay men and women have much more control over themselves and their behaviors than you do.

    Now which person do you think would be a better person for the military?

    A person who can control themselves? Or a person who can't?


    You are clueless my left wing friend when it comes to life aboard a Navy ship....You may be a hot shot in the court room but you know nothing about that......
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 01-29-10 at 01:57 AM.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obama to call for 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' repeal, adviser says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They already do Navy....or are you naive enough to believe that gay people don't already serve in the military.The only difference is whether they can be honest about it.


    As a straight man, I would think that I would prefer to know who was gay and who wasn't gay if I were overly concerned with someone seeing me naked. At least that way....I could take whatever actions I deemed necessary not to expose myself.

    I guess you would prefer that people lie and would prefer exposing yourself to everyone. Right?
    You don't have to state the obvious....The key word is serve openly and they don't do that in the Navy.............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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