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Thread: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    You're right in that they certainly can. That doesn't however entitle them to any additional right.
    I thought corporations couldn't have rights. Now you're implying that they have additional rights.

    They have the right to free speech, when they join up with a "group" they still have that right. You're claim would be that the "group" itself, not simply the individuals in the "group", now has the right to free speech.
    That's not what I'm saying at all. I would never claim that a "group" is capable of possessing anything, let alone rights. My contention is that individuals have the right to assemble and speak on behalf of their business; this SCOTUS decision affirms that right.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-28-10 at 01:38 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    No right is absolute. For example the supremes ruled that religious fanatics could not get in your face when you were on the street and bother people because the fanatics were trying to foist their opinions on others.

    Also terrorists use free speech as part of their strategy on their pogrom upon our country.

    Every right comes with the responsibility to not abuse that right to abuse the rights of others. Fire in a crowded theater.
    And now you're just throwing out every snippet you've ever heard that tangentially relates to free speech or terrorism.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Yes they are. That's why they're inalienable.

    You've got that mixed up with the declaration of independence which is not law.



    Could you cite the specific case along with some relevant excerpts?

    Naw, I'm too lazy. Why don't you research it for me.



    What?



    You think yelling fire in a crowded theater is a right?
    Of course not. But, isn't shouting anything free speech?

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Ive got to crawl back to the basement again.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    You've got that mixed up with the declaration of independence which is not law.
    It's our nation's charter. The Declaration of Independence is arguably more significant than the Constitution. It is the philosophical justification for our right to self-determination and governance. Do you honestly think you can separate the philosophical precepts of the DoI from the BoR?

    Naw, I'm too lazy. Why don't you research it for me.
    You see. This is blatant trolling. Please keep your childish basement tactics where they belong.

    But, isn't shouting anything free speech?
    The term "free speech" could be more extensively referred to as "the right to free speech". A "right" implies that it is only a right when it does not infringe on the rights of others. Since creating a panic infringes upon the rights of others, it would stand to reason that it is not "free speech" as is meant by the Bill of Rights.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    [quote=Ethereal;1058515066]It's our nation's charter. The Declaration of Independence is arguably more significant than the Constitution. It is the philosophical justification for our right to self-determination and governance. Do you honestly think you can separate the philosophical precepts of the DoI from the BoR? [QUOTE]

    Yes by using the rule of law which the declaration is not.



    [QUOTE] You see. This is blatant trolling. Please keep your childish basement tactics where they belong.

    jowol, mein fureur I love the sewer too.



    The term "free speech" could be more extensively referred to as "the right to free speech". A "right" implies that it is only a right when it does not infringe on the rights of others. Since creating a panic infringes upon the rights of others, it would stand to reason that it is not "free speech" as is meant by the Bill of Rights.
    You are repeating what I said. Polly want a cracker, Poly want a cracker.
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 01-28-10 at 02:15 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Yes by using the rule of law which the declaration is not.
    So, you think the Rights in the US Declaration of Independence are different from the Rights in the US Constitution?

    How did you arrive at this conclusion?

    jowol, mein fureur I love the sewer too.
    Okay. We'll just mark this down as yet another assertion you've failed or refused to substantiate.

    You are repeating what I said. Polly want a cracker, Poly want a cracker.
    I'm not repeating what you said. I'm correcting your logical shortcomings.

    You said rights are not absolute and cited "shouting fire in a crowded theater" as an example, but this would imply somehow that shouting fire in a crowded theater is a right that's being restricted in the interest of other individual's rights, otherwise why would you have used it an as example that rights are not absolute?

    Try to remember the arguments you've made. That would help the conversation proceed much more smoothly.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's not the definition of judicial activism. Sorry.
    That's your opinion.... and probably the most popular conservative opinion; however, it is not correct.

    In fact, if the decision had gone the other way, we would be having the opposite discussion.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And where are you getting that from? What part of the language in the first amendment leads you to that conclusion?
    Because I didn't understand the question.



    What does that have to do with anything? You said that the press and churches deserved special protections because they benefited society. I noted that corporations benefit society too. You responded by providing me with a Jefferson quote from 35 years after the drafting, talking about how nice the free press is. I'm not denying that the press is good - I'm saying that corporations are good too.
    I provided you with one of Jeffersons many quotes on the subject as a means of pointing out why that industry was the only industry constitutionally afforded protection explicitly.



    Which is relevant because...? This isn't about the leverage an organization has on its workers/voters, because the organization is not forcing the workers/voters to do anything. If an organization feels that its workers/voters would be best served by supporting a particular candidate, then they are advancing those interests by doing so.
    Because you can leave a union without effecting your livelyhood if you disagree with it. You can't do the same with a job.



    Think about why the Court would be relying on the 14th Amendment in order to invalidate a state law that restricted speech.
    You aren't reading all of the opinions on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by from yourself
    Whether or not a particular guarantee is "purely personal" or is unavailable to corporations for some other reason depends on the nature, history, and purpose of the particular constitutional provision.
    They are granted protection based on the provision, the purpose etc of theat amendment. In some cases free speach may be covered, illegal search and seizure is always covered etc.
    However the same restirictions do not apply to an individual.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, you think the Rights in the US Declaration of Independence are different from the Rights in the US Constitution?

    How did you arrive at this conclusion?



    Okay. We'll just mark this down as yet another assertion you've failed or refused to substantiate.



    I'm not repeating what you said. I'm correcting your logical shortcomings.

    You said rights are not absolute and cited "shouting fire in a crowded theater" as an example, but this would imply somehow that shouting fire in a crowded theater is a right that's being restricted in the interest of other individual's rights, otherwise why would you have used it an as example that rights are not absolute?

    Try to remember the arguments you've made. That would help the conversation proceed much more smoothly.
    I did not say that. You are using an implication to say that I was implying something else totally different than what I said. You think you are a mind reader. You are a legend in your own mind. You are saying that. Poly wanna cracker.
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 01-28-10 at 10:30 AM.

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