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Thread: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    basically, because you agree with the interpretation, it's not activism?
    No. Didn't say anything remotely close to that.

    It's generally accepted that when a court does not follow precedent and makes new law, it's not "judicial conservativism" even if the result is a conservative result.
    I wouldn't say that's generally accepted, though there are different ideas about what judicial activism means. The precedents were activist - so overturning them simply returns things to a conservative state.

    And on the overall issue of corporate rights, precedent is clearly with the majority.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I'm glad you cleared up all of your semantic mess.
    No my mess. I'm not the one who thinks a church can only be a building - especially when discussing the Constitution (you know, stuff like "separation of church and state")

    Now please explain how the 9th amendment applies to the argument.
    Churches don't necessarily have only the rights specifically granted to them by the government.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    So yet again you build a strawman. Please quote where I said that "...the government could ban... the formation of any sort of formally organized religious group".

    But yes, your local zoning commission could reject the request for a building permit.

    But please make yourself look foolish again.
    You just said that the group, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church, has no rights. Accordingly, under your erroneous interpretation, the government can refuse to allow that organizational entity to have a tax exemption, build its churches, or even be chartered.

    You really don't seem to understand the first thing about what you're talking about. If you can't come up with a coherent argument with any support for your claims, I'm done wasting my time trying to explain this to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post


    So, basically, because you agree with the interpretation, it's not activism? You realize that many others think that the "more narrow" interpretation is the exact opposite, right? Including 4 other Supreme Court judges?

    It's generally accepted that when a court does not follow precedent and makes new law, it's not "judicial conservativism" even if the result is a conservative result.
    Please explain what precedents were overturned in this case and how you think it constitutes activism.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 01-27-10 at 09:11 PM.
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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Ah, I thought you had not idea what judicial activism is.

    No, that's not it at all.
    Sure it is. Especially when that particular judge is champion a cause that is supported by the manner in which he/she decides a case.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Please explain what precedents were overturned in this case and how you think it constitutes activism.
    Personally, I don't believe there really is such as thing as judicial activism. I think judges are people and they are influenced by their own experiences, and sometimes can be biased and wrong, just like any other human being. I don't think judges say "I am a judicial activist" especially since the exact same judge may agree with "judicial activism" in one case and be the exact opposite in another.

    But, using the standard definition of it as a decision that freely overturns precedent and overturns legislation to make its own laws, this certainly applies. Even the opinion itself admits it overturns precedents.

    See, here's the key: Almost every single opinion the Supreme Court issues does this. That's their job -- they overturn laws all the time when they believe they runs counter to the Constitution.

    That's why I find the whole "judicial activism" meme silly.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Sure it is. Especially when that particular judge is champion a cause that is supported by the manner in which he/she decides a case.
    That's not the definition of judicial activism. Sorry.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    But, using the standard definition of it as a decision that freely overturns precedent and overturns legislation to make its own laws, this certainly applies. Even the opinion itself admits it overturns precedents.
    It's not judicial activism if the precedents were activist. That's returning to the original intent, which is pretty damn conservative.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It's not judicial activism if the precedents were activist. That's returning to the original intent, which is pretty damn conservative.
    And who decides the "original intent"?

    See, the problem is that, like fundamentalist preachers reading the Bible, many conservatives are absolutely convinced that they, and they alone, know exactly what the "original intent" is, and therefore any case that agrees with their viewpoint is "judicial conservatism" and any one that doesn't is "judicial activism."

    Those of us who are not so biased and self-centered understand that things are not always black and white, that learned minds can disagree on the law and the "original intent" and that our Constitution is not a Bible.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    And who decides the "original intent"?
    Whatever court rules on it last.

    See, the problem is that, like fundamentalist preachers reading the Bible, many conservatives are absolutely convinced that they, and they alone, know exactly what the "original intent" is, and therefore any case that agrees with their viewpoint is "judicial conservatism" and any one that doesn't is "judicial activism."
    Sometimes, yes. But usually, a judicial activist isn't claiming to know original intent better - he/she doesn't care about it, proudly so.

    Judicial conservatism and political conservatism aren't the same thing.

    Those of us who are not so biased and self-centered understand that things are not always black and white, that learned minds can disagree on the law and the "original intent" and that our Constitution is not a Bible.
    Nobody said people can't disagree. So you're a judicial activist - good for you. But while the Constitution isn't the Bible, nobody thinks straying too far from it is a good idea - nobody. It's just a matter of how far one should go. So don't get in a tizzy.

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    Re: Supreme Court Overturns Limits on Corporate Spending in Political Campaigns

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Whatever court rules on it last.



    Sometimes, yes. But usually, a judicial activist isn't claiming to know original intent better - he/she doesn't care about it, proudly so.

    Judicial conservatism and political conservatism aren't the same thing.



    Nobody said people can't disagree. So you're a judicial activist - good for you. But while the Constitution isn't the Bible, nobody thinks straying too far from it is a good idea - nobody. It's just a matter of how far one should go. So don't get in a tizzy.
    How is he an activist if his interpretation is closer to the original intent?

    It blows me away that you hold this position when the damaging results of corporate money in the political process have been so transparent- and transparently evident in issues you seem to care about.

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