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Thread: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

  1. #351
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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    You make so much sense, and then you always say something weird like this.

    How can a life be given a cost value?
    While it's not something people like to discuss, lives are always assigned monetary values. We do it with every aspect of our bodies - workers comp agreements have charts showing the value of each limb or finger, etc.

    Look at it this way:

    Say there's a disease called Deathabetes that primarily affects elderly people. Sheisa Pharmaceuticals develops a drug called Death-B-Gon that, on average, extends the life of a Deathabetes sufferer for 1 year. Now, if that drug cost $10, I would assume that every one of us would agree that Medicare should pay for it. If the cost were $5,000, I think most people would still be on board. But what it it cost $50,000? $500,000? $50,000,000?

    At some point, everyone would have to agree that the drug becomes too expensive to be worth its benefit. We face this exact same dilemma with thousands and thousands of drugs and procedures today, ranging from hip replacements to cancer treatments. How the balancing point is calculated is incredibly important.

    One of the reasons why insurance costs continue to increase is because of special interest groups that lobby insurers on this exact issue. First, a breast cancer group raises a stink about an insurance company refusing to pay for a particular expensive drug. Not wanting the bad publicity, the company agrees to pay for that drug. Then a Parkinson's group does the same. Then a MS group, then a Sickle Cell group, etc. The end result is that most everything ends up getting covered and the rest of the costs get passed on to everyone else.

    When the decisions are being made by insurers or politicians who are subject to the fleeting will of the public, inefficient choices are going to be made. The only way to get around this is to have the people making the decisions be as independent from public control as possible. Britain tried to do just this by creating the NICE, but despite that program's successes, it has still fallen prey to some of the same interest group capture.

    Here is the stark reality that neither Republicans or Democrats are willing to admit: So long as we as a nation continue to place such an incredibly high value on the availability of expensive life-saving treatments, we will never bring health care spending under control. I don't see such a significant cultural shift happening any time soon.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 01-20-10 at 05:58 PM.
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  2. #352
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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    How can a life be given a cost value?
    Easy, if it's not my life or anyone I care about, and it's my money, $0.01 is too high when the government is forcing it on me.

    Take the guns out of my face and I'll consider what I would feel comfortable donating, but the guns leave, first.

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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Some people make that choice.


    I don't know if they choose it or not but a lot of them are to lazy to do anything about it...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    I think that's pretty much it. It's a win, and it helps the GOP, but we're a long way from this being a big deal.

    If Brown had defeated a living and healthy incumbent (Kennedy or Kerry), then yeah that's big news. But my feeling is either of those guys would have squashed Brown like a bug.
    A thirty point swing in attitude from November 2008, in the most flamingly socialist state in the nation?

    That it's a continuation of a trend away from the Democrats already shown in two other states?

    That's a big deal.

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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I don't know if they choose it or not but a lot of them are to lazy to do anything about it...........
    Not having the gumption to do something about their lot in life is purdy much a choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    You responded to the post that said "Hurray no healthcare for millions of americans." with "That's their choice".

    The majority of those individuals that don't have health care cannot afford health care so are are saying they choose to live within this "poor" income level.

    Hell when I was in my early twenties making a little over $30k I could barley afford health care. I think I was paying about $550/month.
    But you could afford it. Many (most?) of us struggled in our early 20's to afford health care. That's life. Some of my co-workers chose not to purchase health insurance. That was their choice and their gamble. I didn't think it was the brightest choice but so what? I'm not sure I can get behind this plan to force them to buy something they don't want to buy.

    I responded the way I did, btw, because it was obvious that the original poster, like you, was ignoring Medicaid's existance. How convenient. For people who make more money than Medicaid allows it often is a choice. I want to talk about THEM for a change.

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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    A thirty point swing in attitude from November 2008, in the most flamingly socialist state in the nation?

    That it's a continuation of a trend away from the Democrats already shown in two other states?

    That's a big deal.
    How can they be the most flamingly (whatever that means) state if they just elected a Republican to the Senate.

    I think many people have a huge misunderstanding of North East politics. They are a very independent bunch.

    The reason Kennedy was there for so long is because of the power of incumbents. Especially in the Senate!

    And the trend in Virginia is ALWAYS to elect a governor that is from the opposite party of the President. We've been doing that here for decades. I think it's what people call CYA.
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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I see it... and that's the problem isn't it? The lobbyists are simply pandering to whomever is in charge and the politicians- no matter the party - takes the money. That has to stop.
    You'll get no argument there. It's disgusting.
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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Oh, so what you mean is that I can't get something that I can't afford, but some basic level of housing is available to me if I am below a certain standard of living? That sounds pretty much like our current healthcare system.

    If we were to analogize the healthcare proposal, it would be like saying we're going to give out government subsidies to people who can only afford to rent, because we think everyone should have the chance to own a house. We tried that. It failed miserably.
    Owning a house and renting a house is different then having health care and not having health care. One is a necessity to live, the other is not.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And I wouldn't have a problem with a bill that sought to do just that. If anyone proposes it, let me know.
    Which is one of the reasons why I am completely against this bill.


    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That would have been 20-22% of your income. What do you think is the appropriate percentage of income we can expect people to pay?
    I don't know I'm not an economics expert. I also know that a loaf of bread and water shouldn't be 20-22% of my income. I don't know what percentage it should be though. It should be left of to the consumer market (another reason I don't approve of government run health care).
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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  10. #360
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    Re: GOP's Brown wins Mass. Senate seat in epic upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnb View Post
    How can they be the most flamingly (whatever that means) state if they just elected a Republican to the Senate.

    I think many people have a huge misunderstanding of North East politics. They are a very independent bunch.
    They're a very independent bunch that has voted for Democratic Senators for 82 of the last 100 Senate-years, for Democratic Presidents for 42 of the last 50 years, and for Democratic Congressmen for 172 of the last 180 House-years.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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