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FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

If the government oversteps its bounds and intrudes in my life and my privacy it is both a threat and a source of insecurity.
So much for entirely destroying the definition of the rights.
If a breach of privacy was a breach of security, there would be no need to divide them into two groups of severity.
This is why there is this silly thing here in the U.S. that we decided to call our ahem.. bill of rights, they mention something about illegal search and seizure and all.
Yeah. Under "violation of the right to privacy". :2razz:
 
So much for entirely destroying the definition of the rights.
If a breach of privacy was a breach of security, there would be no need to divide them into two groups of severity.
Yeah. Under "violation of the right to privacy". :2razz:

did you not read the amendment I linked?

note how it is worded:

"The right of the people to be secure..."

you can play semantics about definitions and "what right it is categorized as" and all, but fact is, if the government is overstepping their bounds they ARE violating my security and they ARE a threat. I have nothing to hide, and as such they have no reason to intrude.

This is not some silly semantic definition of what "right" it can be worded on, it is personal, it is me looking out for ME, MINE and MY FAMILY. This (and the people as a whole) will ALWAYS come before the government, and a government intrusion on my privacy is most assuredly a breach of security - even more so since I have nothing to hide.
 
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I did give you a real response.

The hell you did. It was an emotional appeal that did not address the choice you posed in the post.

A terrorist attack is not supposed to make you paranoid, even the families of 9-11 victims know that - IIRC, weren't they on the news a while back, and didn't they believe thatWBIs in airports would not have stopped the christmas bomber?

But I asked YOU, not them. Isn't your statement bit of an unrealistic, fear driven ditchotomy, and not a reasonable or even likely ditchotomy?
 
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And the law enforcing institutes who carry them.

I'm pretty sure I still have the right to keep and bear arms. It's not limited to government authority.
 
The hell you did. It was an emotional appeal that did not address the choice you posed in the post.

A terrorist attack is not supposed to make you paranoid, even the families of 9-11 victims know that - IIRC, weren't they on the news a while back, and didn't they believe thatWBIs in airports would not have stopped the christmas bomber?

But I asked YOU, not them. Isn't your statement bit of an unrealistic, fear driven ditchotomy, and not a reasonable or even likely ditchotomy?

Well, you can't expect much when you ask a dumb **** question. Good luck!
 
Well, you can't expect much when you ask a dumb

Your inability to see a legit question and respond to it is not my problem.

(If I really wanted to let you know how stupid your reply was just now, this topic (or these posts) would probably be in the sewer by now)
 
If someone wants to make copies of my phone calls, I don't feel that my rights have been violated.

The FBI has information where I made a call at H-hour on D-day. So what?

Without your consent or a warrant? Then yes your rights have indeed been violated regardless of what you might feel.
 
did you not read the amendment I linked?
Indeed I have.
note how it is worded:

"The right of the people to be secure..."

you can play semantics about definitions and "what right it is categorized as" and all
Call it playing semantics, call it whatever you want.
You have taken the paragraph out of its context by picking the word "secure" and changing its meaning in the paragraph from the privacy of a person to his personal security.
but fact is, if the government is overstepping their bounds they ARE violating my security and they ARE a threat. I have nothing to hide, and as such they have no reason to intrude.

This is not some silly semantic definition of what "right" it can be worded on, it is personal, it is me looking out for ME, MINE and MY FAMILY. This (and the people as a whole) will ALWAYS come before the government, and a government intrusion on my privacy is most assuredly a breach of security - even more so since I have nothing to hide.
I have yet to hear on a person who has died because he's been frisked by a police officer.
The right to privacy is important, and violating it is bad, but it is nowhere near as important as the right to security.
 
I'm pretty sure I still have the right to keep and bear arms. It's not limited to government authority.
The enforcement of your rights were never intended to be self-dependent.
Weapons and the such are simply an additional boost to your personal security.
 
2000 times in 5-years.
400 times a year.
33.33 calls per month.
One per day.

Well, I sure hope the folks that have their gonch in a wad over this take the 500 Raw FBI files of political opponents taken by The Clintons as seriously.

Stuff that could do significant damage.

Oh SNAP!

Didn't happen.

Nevermind.

.
 
I love how people are implying others are going to commit criminal acts, yet have no problem continually dismissing that the FBI committed illegal acts. It doesn’t matter if you THINK or FEEL it SHOULD be legal, the fact is it isn’t, so the fact is no matter how ignorantly and rather jerkishly you want to imply others are going to break the law you’re excusing the people that actually ARE which shows your hypocrisy plainly.

For those going “who cares, if it helps protect people”.

How about DNA taken in a government database?
Camera’s in your house connected to a government mainframe?
GPS chips implanted?

I mean, what extent are you fine with having the constitution shat on in the name of Saftey.

Funny thing is, you people that are for that are the quickest to go “OMG NOEZ! THE 2ND AMENDMENT!!!!!!” if someone suggests making mandatory background checks.

Your hypocritical application of the constitution is both hilarious and sickening.
 
I love how people are implying others are going to commit criminal acts, yet have no problem continually dismissing that the FBI committed illegal acts.
Just did another search through the entire thread.
Couldn't find anyone who has stated that the FBI did not violate the law here.


Strange. :2razz:
 
Just did another search through the entire thread.
Couldn't find anyone who has stated that the FBI did not violate the law here.


Strange. :2razz:

Nope, but I can find a bunch of people quickly glossing over it and immedietely talking about how they should be able to do it and spending far more time implying that other forum members want to do criminal activity than actually stating that the FBI was wrong and should be held accountable for doing illegal action.
 
Nope, but I can find a bunch of people quickly glossing over it and immedietely talking about how they should be able to do it and spending far more time implying that other forum members want to do criminal activity than actually stating that the FBI was wrong and should be held accountable for doing illegal action.
Please do find such a poster.
 
Folks don't like it when their information is given to law-enforcing institutes.

They feel it hurts their odds at getting clean out of a committed crime.

Correct.

It's also the people who consider committing crimes in the future. :tongue4:

Twice you do it. Not ONCE do you say that the FBI needs to have action taken against them, or that they were distinctly wrong. You've given a half assed "yeah, no ones above the law" comment followed by immeidetley saying why the FBI should be above the constitution though by legalizing such action and excusing it.

You've spent more time actually implying forum members are just mad about this because they want to commit crimes than actually taking the FBI to task for doing ACTUAL, FACTUAL, now in the present day illegality not the hypothetical illegality you speak of when implying it to other posters. The most you give is a half assed "no ones above the law" in between excusing the FBI's actions and saying why they should be allowed to be above the constitution.
 
I agree, the law is above everyone.
And at investigations when time is essential, it might have been a contributing decision, while law-violating, to take the call record without a warrant.
A minor break of freedom, and yes, it should be pointed out (once again) that the law is above everyone.
Nope, it's a breach of privacy, a much smaller threat than the breach of security.
The right to privacy is important, and violating it is bad, but it is nowhere near as important as the right to security.

My advice to future Zyphlin would be to read entire threads before making accusations.

Have a nice day. ;)
 
Thanks for proving my point.

You not once called for anything to be done to the FBI, specifically stated they were wrong, or even gave half the venom towards them you did other posters.

All you did was give passing nods to them not being "above the law" while IMMEDIETELY jumping into excusing it and saying why they SHOULD be above the constitution by legalizing this kind of thing.

For example, your last quote has you saying how the right to privacy is important and violating it is bad....and IMMEDIETELY excuse it by saying security is more important.

The one above that you point out no ones above the law, but then you excuse their ACTUAL breaking of the law as simply a "minor" thing despite it being done to a large amount of people and is CLEARLY illegal.

The one above that, again, acknowledges it was law violating, in the midst of completely and utterly justifying and excusing it.

Thanks Apoc, you saved me some time. Your quotes are perfect examples of what little condemnation you had for the FBI, which was half hearted "it was bad" type statements surrounded by excuses, justifications, and rationalizations for why that's completely okay...

But all you posters that disagree with it, clearly you're all planning criminal activites.

:roll:
 
Thanks for proving my point.

You not once called for anything to be done to the FBI, specifically stated they were wrong, or even gave half the venom towards them you did other posters.

All you did was give passing nods to them not being "above the law" while IMMEDIETELY jumping into excusing it and saying why they SHOULD be above the constitution by legalizing this kind of thing.

For example, your last quote has you saying how the right to privacy is important and violating it is bad....and IMMEDIETELY excuse it by saying security is more important.

The one above that you point out no ones above the law, but then you excuse their ACTUAL breaking of the law as simply a "minor" thing despite it being done to a large amount of people and is CLEARLY illegal.

The one above that, again, acknowledges it was law violating, in the midst of completely and utterly justifying and excusing it.

Thanks Apoc, you saved me some time. Your quotes are perfect examples of what little condemnation you had for the FBI, which was half hearted "it was bad" type statements surrounded by excuses, justifications, and rationalizations for why that's completely okay...

But all you posters that disagree with it, clearly you're all planning criminal activites.
There there now, Zyph, let's keep things in proportion;

* I have indeed stated that the action was wrong, unlike what you are claiming here, and my evidence is my previous post above.

* I did not "give any venom" to any of the posters here, the statements you are referring to were done in a cynical manner.

* It is a minor violation of the freedom to privacy, there's no way going around it - it's only a phone record.
I would have strongly opposed it if the FBI were spying on people with cameras, that is a major violation of the individual's privacy and it is severely wrong.

* What I was proposing was a partial legalization, with an emphasis on partial. I did not propose to completely change the definition of what counts as a violation of the individual's privacy, but only to allow this specific action in a limited form.

So basically what I'm saying here is that the act was wrong, but was contributing, and hence, a partial legalization of the act should be considered.

Since the action was taken at a time when there is a law against it, it was in violation of the law and therefore should receive the appropriate consequences, keeping in mind the seriousness of the violation.

You've pretty much taken things to a completely-different level of severity, as if the FBI were monitoring individuals 24/7 and uploading the videos to you-tube.
 
Hey look, it took you two pages but you finally said action should actually be taken against them, albiet once again with rationalization, excuses, and justifications how it was little to nothing major they did and really they should've been allowed to do it anyways :roll:

At least you finally said it though.
 
The right to privacy is important, and violating it is bad, but it is nowhere near as important as the right to security.
So that "right to security" doesn't apply if the government is the threat, apparently ... :roll:
 
Hey look, it took you two pages but you finally said action should actually be taken against them, albiet once again with rationalization, excuses, and justifications how it was little to nothing major they did and really they should've been allowed to do it anyways
Do notice that you're not giving arguments against my proposal, but are simply engaging in the labeling of my post.
It is counter-productive.
At least you finally said it though.
What about Harshaw and Binary digit (and a few others I believe) who have yet to make a post where they call for an action against the FBI, for this horrific crime against humanity?
Or are you only interested with people who oppose your position? :2razz:
 
So that "right to security" doesn't apply if the government is the threat, apparently ... :roll:
Security is more about the safety of the individual, not his privacy.
As I said, no one has ever died from a frisk.
 
Security is more about the safety of the individual, not his privacy.
As I said, no one has ever died from a frisk.
No one ever died from a waterboarding, either. But that doesn't answer my question.

The point of the Bill of Rights is to put government in its proper bounds, as to the Founders the government was the security risk.
 
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