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Thread: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Hey look, it took you two pages but you finally said action should actually be taken against them, albiet once again with rationalization, excuses, and justifications how it was little to nothing major they did and really they should've been allowed to do it anyways

    At least you finally said it though.

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The right to privacy is important, and violating it is bad, but it is nowhere near as important as the right to security.
    So that "right to security" doesn't apply if the government is the threat, apparently ...

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Hey look, it took you two pages but you finally said action should actually be taken against them, albiet once again with rationalization, excuses, and justifications how it was little to nothing major they did and really they should've been allowed to do it anyways
    Do notice that you're not giving arguments against my proposal, but are simply engaging in the labeling of my post.
    It is counter-productive.
    At least you finally said it though.
    What about Harshaw and Binary digit (and a few others I believe) who have yet to make a post where they call for an action against the FBI, for this horrific crime against humanity?
    Or are you only interested with people who oppose your position?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    So that "right to security" doesn't apply if the government is the threat, apparently ...
    Security is more about the safety of the individual, not his privacy.
    As I said, no one has ever died from a frisk.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Security is more about the safety of the individual, not his privacy.
    As I said, no one has ever died from a frisk.
    No one ever died from a waterboarding, either. But that doesn't answer my question.

    The point of the Bill of Rights is to put government in its proper bounds, as to the Founders the government was the security risk.

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    No one ever died from a waterboarding, either. But that doesn't answer my question.
    Alright, let me rephrase then, no one has ever got hurt from a frisk.
    The point of the Bill of Rights is to put government in its proper bounds, as to the Founders the government was the security risk.
    The people are always at risk that the government would go out of its boundaries and become tyrannical, or at least less-democratic, but who in heavens has decided that this risk would be labeled a "security risk"?

    It could just as well be an economical risk for all I care, depends on where the boundaries are being crossed, and when referring to this specific case - we are talking about a privacy risk.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    That's cause I've made it clear I disagree with your proposal.

    This action itself shows we shouldn't give the government MORE power, because they will always reach for a bit more.

    They were limited in how they could do these, they broke those rules and regulations.

    And we're supposed to believe though that if we then make that legal that they won't reach and break more rules and regulations to do something even worse?

    And on, and on, and on.

    No, the benefit of this is little and not worth continuing down the slippery slope not to mention the idiotic and ignorant brainwashing of people that its okay to continually over and over again give up privacy in the name of "security" by Big Nanny State Government.

    The precedence does not need to be set.

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Alright, let me rephrase then, no one has ever got hurt from a frisk.
    The degree of physical pain and/or discomfort is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The people are always at risk that the government would go out of its boundaries and become tyrannical, or at least less-democratic, but who in heavens has decided that this risk would be labeled a "security risk"?
    Probably people who have been falsely accused by the government using unconstitutional tactics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    It could just as well be an economical risk for all I care, depends on where the boundaries are being crossed, and when referring to this specific case - we are talking about a privacy risk.
    Frame it however you like ... but if you argue it outside the framework of the Forth Amendment, your argument is pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bill of Rights
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    The degree of physical pain and/or discomfort is irrelevant.Probably people who have been falsely accused by the government using unconstitutional tactics.Frame it however you like ... but if you argue it outside the framework of the Forth Amendment, your argument is pointless.
    Once again, the word secure in that paragraph is being taken out of context.
    It refers to the people's feeling of safety that their right to privacy would not be violated, not to the people's feeling of safety for their lives and bodies.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: FBI broke law for years in phone record searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's cause I've made it clear I disagree with your proposal.

    This action itself shows we shouldn't give the government MORE power, because they will always reach for a bit more.

    They were limited in how they could do these, they broke those rules and regulations.

    And we're supposed to believe though that if we then make that legal that they won't reach and break more rules and regulations to do something even worse?

    And on, and on, and on.

    No, the benefit of this is little and not worth continuing down the slippery slope not to mention the idiotic and ignorant brainwashing of people that its okay to continually over and over again give up privacy in the name of "security" by Big Nanny State Government.

    The precedence does not need to be set.
    It's a minor privacy violation.
    Again, keep things in proportion, do not equalize phone record with bigger privacy violations such as my given example of monitoring.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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