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Thread: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    I'm totally aware of that... if you can control the words in the debate, you control the debate... so stop helping them control the debate.

    They are illegal aliens, here illegally, and therefore, criminals..... not immigrants.

    Terrorist attacks are terrorist attacks, not man made disasters. Terrorists are terrorists, not isolated disinfranchised loners. (or whatever that crap Barry was spewing)
    Hell, if I"m not using the term "illegal alien", I'm calling them "invaders".

    "Immigrant" refers to legal residents from foreign nations.

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hell, if I"m not using the term "illegal alien", I'm calling them "invaders".

    "Immigrant" refers to legal residents from foreign nations.
    I probably shouldn't have quoted you when I made those points.... I believe you also call the people that employ illegal alien traitors. and rightly so.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    I have pointed this out to you on another thread, but here goes:
    Subjugation is the price you pay for being conquered......
    You were 'owned' as soon as Columbus landed.....
    What you actually did was run away once I corrected your fallacious claim that the indigenous population of America was "conquered" by the English or Spanish...regardless, explain several things to me, great sachem. Firstly, are you seeking to provide ethical justification for the "conquest" of Amerindian society? Are you a social Darwinist; do you believe that "might makes right"? Do you regard that as a viable ethical code that can govern day-to-day societal relations? If so, what is your objection to illegal immigration? What is wrong with crime and with invasive entry if it was acceptable when conducted by the English and Spanish? If not, then similarly, why was it acceptable when conducted by the English and Spanish? We await your insightful commentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    They're not Arapaio's policies.

    It's the law.
    They're Arpaio's policies, else he would not be lauded as a unique figure by the authoritarian statists and petty nationalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    What part of illegal don't you comprehend?
    What part of "vulgar nationalism" do these statists not comprehend? Your comment is bred of a petty fetish for the law above all else. This is problematic, as legal and ethical standards are frequently divergent and at times conflicting. Though slavery was at one time legal in the U.S., that did not make it ethical, and though slave liberation was illegal at the same time, that did not make it unethical. This is mentioned not because of any intent to claim that slavery and immigration are of equivalent moral status, but merely to illustrate the fact that the law and the ethical code might easily be at odds.

    At any rate, if you wanted to apply your vulgar nationalism consistently, it would be long past time for you to realize that your artificial nation-state is constructed on the foundation of genocide, of spread of infectious disease, and of slaughter of non-combatants rather than honorable battle. Your "border" is the Atlantic Ocean.




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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    [quote=Cochise;1058499661]
    What you actually did was run away once I corrected your fallacious claim that the indigenous population of America was "conquered" by the English or Spanish...
    Deny Pizzaro & Cortez all you want, but their conquests are indelibly etched in the history books......

    regardless, explain several things to me, great sachem. Firstly, are you seeking to provide ethical justification for the "conquest" of Amerindian society?
    It doesn't need to be justified, it simply is.......

    Are you a social Darwinist; do you believe that "might makes right"?
    The victors generally prosper, the vanquished don't, you can draw your own conclusion.......

    Do you regard that as a viable ethical code that can govern day-to-day societal relations? If so, what is your objection to illegal immigration?
    There needs to be some sort of 'quality control', which is the purpose of the LEGAL immigration process.......
    Is is imprudent to allow diseased criminals into our country unchecked....

    What is wrong with crime and with invasive entry if it was acceptable when conducted by the English and Spanish?
    It was the age of imperialism, it is incumbent upon the invaded to defend themselves......
    This holds true in any age though......

    If not, then similarly, why was it acceptable when conducted by the English and Spanish? We await your insightful commentary.
    Asked & answered.......
    And, if Scarecrow doesn't mind, I will field these as well.....

    They're Arpaio's policies, else he would not be lauded as a unique figure by the authoritarian statists and petty nationalists.
    Wrong! He is enforcing the law....
    Maybe quite a bit more zealously than some....
    In fact, I would say those not performing to his standard are slackers.....

    What part of "vulgar nationalism" do these statists not comprehend? Your comment is bred of a petty fetish for the law above all else. This is problematic, as legal and ethical standards are frequently divergent and at times conflicting. Though slavery was at one time legal in the U.S., that did not make it ethical, and though slave liberation was illegal at the same time, that did not make it unethical. This is mentioned not because of any intent to claim that slavery and immigration are of equivalent moral status, but merely to illustrate the fact that the law and the ethical code might easily be at odds.
    Laws are generated by common sense, ethics is generated from what makes you feel good.......
    At any rate, if you wanted to apply your vulgar nationalism consistently, it would be long past time for you to realize that your artificial nation-state is constructed on the foundation of genocide, of spread of infectious disease, and of slaughter of non-combatants rather than honorable battle. Your "border" is the Atlantic Ocean.
    Again, you will have to get over it, & learn to live within the rules of society laid down by your conquerors or perish.....
    If you want something different, you will have to work for it.....
    Last edited by Partisan; 01-21-10 at 12:24 PM.

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Deny Pizzaro & Cortez all you want, but their conquests are indelibly etched in the history books......
    Inaccurate history books, perhaps. "Deny"? No, I've simply addressed the actual reasons for their so-called "victory," as summarized by Restall's Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest:

    Chapter 3 deals with what Restall calls "the Myth of the White Conquistador" — the belief that the Spanish conquest was accomplished by a small number of white Spaniards. Restall claims that much of the actual military operations was undertaken by the indigenous allies of the Conquistadors, outnumbering the actual Spanish forces by many hundreds to one. He also shows that there were several conquistadors of African and Moorish descent — dispelling the idea of the conquest as a victory of the "white Europeans" over the "red Indians"...Chapter 7 deals with what Restall calls "The Myth of Superiority" — the belief that the success of the Spanish conquest was due to either the supposed technological superiority of the Spaniards or a kind of inherent cultural superiority — and that Spanish victory was therefore inevitable. Restall claims that such technological advantages as handguns, cannons, steel armor, horses and dogs weren't of great consequence in the actual fighting since they were all in short supply, and that the Aztecs were not daunted by this new technology for long. He also refutes the notion that the Indians' lack of alphabetic writing constituted a major drawback. Nor were the Indians childlike, naive or cowardly in comparison with the Spanish such as many early Spanish sources have painted them. Restall argues that the factors behind the success of the conquistadors were mostly the devastating effect of European diseases for which the Indians had no resistance, the disunity between indigenous groups some of which allied with the Spaniards early, the technological advantage of the steel sword, native battle practices that were not upheld by the Spaniards — such as killing non-combatants and civilians, and most importantly the fact that the Indians were fighting on their own ground with their families and fields to care for, which made them quicker to compromise.
    You have offered no response, no legitimate reply, the reason for this being that you do not have one. You are desperate to cling to the fallacious myths of total European superiority over the Native American population to justify your own equally fallacious mindset and worldviews. The problem with that is that the foundations are flawed. Why not provide actual counter-argument instead of mumbling that Indians should get over their "loss" and shrilly repeating the same talking points over and over again, as though you're blind and deaf? And why do you not even attempt to address the English "conquest"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    It doesn't need to be justified, it simply is.......
    Ah, is-ought fallacy. The prescriptive cannot be derived from the descriptive. Try again, and I'd recommend making an attempt to answer the question this time: Was the genocide against Amerindians ethical or morally right? Its occurrence is quite apparent; I am inquiring about its morality. Do attempt to respond properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    The victors generally prosper, the vanquished don't, you can draw your own conclusion.......
    I cannot, actually, as that is not an answer to my question. What of the fact that a united indigenous population in all their strength would have repelled all European invasion? You don't seem to distinguish between different indigenous groups, so there's little basis for distinction between those "vanquished" and those not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    There needs to be some sort of 'quality control', which is the purpose of the LEGAL immigration process.......
    Is is imprudent to allow diseased criminals into our country unchecked....
    Then why do you not object to the fact that diseased criminals came into America unchecked from Europe? The English and Spanish infestations resulted in the pervasive spread of infectious plague, so why is there no objection there? Because it "simply was"? Reclamation of indigenous territory by modern immigrants also "simply is." There is obviously some inconsistent application of principles in your "analysis."

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    It was the age of imperialism, it is incumbent upon the invaded to defend themselves......
    This holds true in any age though......
    You still seem unable to offer ethical justifications for your claims. Do you know why racism is generally irrational? More often than not, it's based on conclusions derived from anecdotal encounters with members of the hated race(s) and sujective preference and bias over sound ethical analysis, which demands objectivity. That is why you're not able to provide any logically consistent ethical basis for your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Asked & answered.......
    You answered nothing. What you did was repeat the original assertions that led to my challenges in the first place, without provision of sound counter-argument or even indication that you'd adequately considered the meaning of my words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    And, if Scarecrow doesn't mind, I will field these as well.....
    If these "responses" are to be as poorly crafted as your prior ones, Scarecrow will have every reason to mind, I suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Wrong! He is enforcing the law....
    Maybe quite a bit more zealously than some....
    In fact, I would say those not performing to his standard are slackers.....
    Oh, you misunderstand. I am referring to the nature of his enforcement, which is the basis for the acknowledgment of him as a unique figure. You are correct that there are slackers about...in my opinion, the inhabitants of the Pima-Maricopa reservation should organize an effort to deport little Joey to Italia where he belongs. Hell, I might even make a trip over there to help out myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Laws are generated by common sense, ethics is generated from what makes you feel good.......
    Also not a response. Unless you regard slavery as ethical or slave liberation as unethical, my example provided a clear demonstration that there is a divergence and at times a sharp conflict between legal and ethical standards. Ethics is the study of morality, ethical guidelines based on pursuing moral aims, and many laws at odds with that. Why are you perpetually incapable of providing a sound response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Again, you will have to get over it, & learn to live within the rules of society laid down by your conquerors or perish.....
    If you want something different, you will have to work for it.....
    Which "conquerors" are you referring to? The English and Spanish are clearly not conquerors, inasmuch as they relied upon the ravages of infectious disease and the help of indigenous people of better quality than them to establish settlements in America. And again...who's to say that the indigenous re-populating the U.S. aren't "conquering" you, dear lad? Maybe that is them "working for it." Or isn't that what you actually think?

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts



    This man is a Mixtec immigrant from Oaxaca. He has more rights to walk this stolen land of the indigenous than you do, if we were to apply your petty little nationalism consistently...let me show you where the border is, son.

    ]

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    AP-
    They also carried signs saying "we are human."

    Fine, but you are illegal.

    Be human where you came from.

    Adios.



    .
    They all need to be wearing pink underwear.

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    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    A suggestion: Give Texas back to Mexico and let them live there.

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They all need to be wearing pink underwear.

    PinkUnderwear.com
    So does this guy.......

    The reason we resist illegal immigrants so vehemently is that all of them are common criminals......

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    Re: Thousands protest sheriff's immigration efforts

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    A suggestion: Give Texas back to Mexico and let them live there.
    Nope, Sam Houston & Co. fought & won independence from Mexico.....
    It was a republic for nine years before it became a state....
    I see no reason to give it back.....

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