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Thread: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I think if you're going to put your name on a piece of paper which is intended to change the code of law which effects everyone on your patch of turf, it should be a matter of record viewable by everyone on your patch of turf.

    If you don't want to be on the public record as being for or against something, then don't go on record.

    (A petition in no way changes the code of law...)


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  2. #22
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I think it's fine to keep private which officials you vote for, but just as the votes cast by those officials are public record, so should petitions be public record.
    But why? What is it about your vote for a public official that warrants different treatment than your support for an electoral initiative? What about voting records on things like Prop 8?
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    I've never been entirely convinced that ballots should be secret. It serves a purpose, of course, but there are also vast shenanigans enabled by it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I've never been entirely convinced that ballots should be secret. It serves a purpose, of course, but there are also vast shenanigans enabled by it.
    Perhaps it would be better to say:

    Ballots should be secret, but access to them should be carefully monitored and audited to ensure no "shenanigans".
    Education.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    There would be almost no chance for shenanigans if you stepped up and declared your vote.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    (A petition in no way changes the code of law...)


    .
    Oh, for crying out loud. I wasn't trying to suggest that a petition changes the law, just that there's the intent there. Did you miss the word intent?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    But why? What is it about your vote for a public official that warrants different treatment than your support for an electoral initiative? What about voting records on things like Prop 8?
    When you're voting for a public official, you're not (unless you've got a one-track mind) voting for them because of one specific issue. You might be electing them to represent your interests, or because you expect them to adhere to a party platform, or because the other guy is a stinking liar. In any event, voting for a particular person to fill a particular office isn't about sending them to make or fight one particular piece of legislation or constitutional amendment.

    With respect to voting records on propositions or amendments, I think those should be public as well. I don't think there should be any anonymity when it comes to things which end up (or at least are intended to end up) on the law books, for the same reason I expect the voting records of my elected officials to be public record.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #28
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    When you're voting for a public official, you're not (unless you've got a one-track mind) voting for them because of one specific issue. You might be electing them to represent your interests, or because you expect them to adhere to a party platform, or because the other guy is a stinking liar. In any event, voting for a particular person to fill a particular office isn't about sending them to make or fight one particular piece of legislation or constitutional amendment.

    With respect to voting records on propositions or amendments, I think those should be public as well. I don't think there should be any anonymity when it comes to things which end up (or at least are intended to end up) on the law books, for the same reason I expect the voting records of my elected officials to be public record.
    You're right in that that is a difference between voting for a public official and voting for a proposition, but what is it about that difference that makes it good policy to keep one vote secret while making the other vote public?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You're right in that that is a difference between voting for a public official and voting for a proposition, but what is it about that difference that makes it good policy to keep one vote secret while making the other vote public?
    I think that ballots cast in an election must be secret in order to maintain the integrity of the election. You must be free to vote for the candidate you think is best without fear of retribution from the government or ruling party.

    In the case of voting for or against a proposition, you are casting a ballot either for or against a proposed change to law, which directly impacts the lives of your neighbors. I believe that they have as much right to know who is responsible for that impact as they do if it's an act of a legislature.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    There would be almost no chance for shenanigans if you stepped up and declared your vote.
    There would be less chance of shenanigans directed towards fixing a vote beforehand, but there would be far more chance of harrassment afterwards, which would lead some to change their vote, skewing the vote anyway.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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