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Thread: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

  1. #11
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    People who aren't willing to stand behind their opinions don't deserve to have their opinions counted.
    I disagree.

    My views can jeapordize my husband's job in many ways so I should be able to support things privately and still have strength in my opinion and vote - without worry that malcontents would use my thoughts against him.

    However, I feel that names on a sheet are too easy to forge and falsify - petitions aren't dependable and secure considering the heavy influence and control they can have. So I support some bureau or something varifying the names - making sure they're real people. But that process should be kept private and only used to verify - not used against the people who signed it.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-15-10 at 07:23 PM.
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    People who aren't willing to stand behind their opinions don't deserve to have their opinions counted.
    Then should ballots no longer be secret?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    However, I feel that names on a sheet are too easy to forge and falsify - petitions aren't dependable and secure considering the heavy influence and control they can have.
    Yes, look at how many times Mickey Mouse was registered to vote by ACORN.

    I wonder how many times Mickey actually voted?

    Obama did win, you know...

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, look at how many times Mickey Mouse was registered to vote by ACORN.

    I wonder how many times Mickey actually voted?

    Obama did win, you know...
    Well, then i guess that settles it - Mickey Mouse is a damned Democrat.
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    I would prefer that my name not be made public......

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    I think if you're going to put your name on a piece of paper which is intended to change the code of law which effects everyone on your patch of turf, it should be a matter of record viewable by everyone on your patch of turf.

    If you don't want to be on the public record as being for or against something, then don't go on record.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I think the difference between here and there has more to do with user demographics and moderation than it does with level of anonymity. You can be as anonymous on this site as you can be on youtube, but we don't get a lot of crossover in terms of comment type.

    While you're right that it can allow people to be lazy, it also allows people with views outside of the mainstream to back their beliefs without risking retribution.

    I'm a moderate Republican. On the "out of the mainstream" scale, I'm pretty low. However, if every vote I made or position I supported was made public, I would be very reluctant to participate in politics at all due to the demographics of the industry I work in. I already refuse to donate more than $25 to any individual candidate, because I don't want my name showing up on opensecrets. If it's that bad for me, think of what it's like for other people.

    Someone who opposes gay marriage while working in an industry dominated by gay men has the choice to either refrain from participating in the political process or lose his job. The same thing could apply to socialists working at banks, conservatives working in social service organizations, or communists/fascists working anywhere.
    I think there needs to be a distinction made between a vote for public officials which needs to be kept secret, and signing a petition.

    In the case of voting there are people to check that you are a registered voter, and that you vote once.

    Signing this petition to change a state law. What if there are people who signed who are not citizens or sign ten different lists. People should have the right to scrutinize the lists and challange them where appropriate. If the lists are kept secret people will not be able to insure accuracy.

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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    However, I feel that names on a sheet are too easy to forge and falsify - petitions aren't dependable and secure considering the heavy influence and control they can have. So I support some bureau or something varifying the names - making sure they're real people. But that process should be kept private and only used to verify - not used against the people who signed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I think there needs to be a distinction made between a vote for public officials which needs to be kept secret, and signing a petition.

    In the case of voting there are people to check that you are a registered voter, and that you vote once.

    Signing this petition to change a state law. What if there are people who signed who are not citizens or sign ten different lists. People should have the right to scrutinize the lists and challange them where appropriate. If the lists are kept secret people will not be able to insure accuracy.
    Most (all?) states already do this. In the case at issue, WA's Department of State went through the petition list to verify the names and strike the ones that were invalid, thus eliminating concerns over vote stuffing. If people don't trust this, I would even support a system where groups that wanted to verify the signatures for themselves could come down to the Secretary's office and look at the lists for any errors, provided that the names on that list don't leave the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I think if you're going to put your name on a piece of paper which is intended to change the code of law which effects everyone on your patch of turf, it should be a matter of record viewable by everyone on your patch of turf.

    If you don't want to be on the public record as being for or against something, then don't go on record.
    So all votes should be made public?
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So all votes should be made public?
    I think it's fine to keep private which officials you vote for, but just as the votes cast by those officials are public record, so should petitions be public record.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #20
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    Re: Court to decide if petition signers' names public

    I think a valid point has been made by one or more persons in this thread.

    Specifically, that:

    Petitions have little or no checks involved to ensure people only sign them once, if the people signing are alive or not, etc.

    Voting systems do (although we always hear rumors about violations despite any precautions against them).

    It seems to me that if some or all petitions were allowed to be signed privately, then a system would also have to set up to ensure against "petition fraud", or the like.

    Currently, it would seem that with petition signatures being public, if a petitions opponent were motivated enough, they could research all signers, and through doing so, prove or disprove the validity of the petition.

    Disclaimer: I have not researched anything about the current systems in place regarding petitions, so…
    Education.

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