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Obama wants record $708 billion for military next year [edited]

THANK YOU!!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!

But regardless of how [much] we contribute the war is being fought and we are not winning. So since you're so very knowledgable please tell me, why in the hell are we spending billions on a war we are losing??? :confused:

We are fighting in the wrong strategic battlefield. The military can't fight the Muslim Brotherhood, since the MB doesn't carry out military operations - they are strictly information warfare types.
 
We are fighting in the wrong strategic battlefield. The military can't fight the Muslim Brotherhood, since the MB doesn't carry out military operations - they are strictly information warfare types.

:rofl
The military CAN but ISN'T. This is due to our military leaders failure to actually come up with a plan of attack that can actually defeat our enemies. We keep trying the same thing over and over. Throwing money and men at this war is obviously not ending it.:doh
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

True, but that was when most of the money spent on ww2 was spent in this country and went fairly quick into american worker's pockets. Now it goes to China and the corrupt regimes that we support in the war.:(

Massive government spending for WWII pulled us out of the depression. And after the war massive government spending kept us from falling back into recession. Without government programs like the GI Bill we would have never got back on our feet.

The difference between Iraq and WWII is we already had all the men and materials. We didn't have to build thousands of planes, ships and tanks or draft millions of men. That is why the present wars are draining the economy instead of boosting it. Nation building is expensive and is hurting our country.
 
War is never moral. No matter what you say or how hard you try you can NEVER justify the taking of a human life. But some things, moral or otherwise, must be done regardless. War is one of these things.

I agree with war if it is for self defense. Since we have not been invaded by a foreign country I think that the war was too much of a knee jerk reactionary response to 9-11.

There were other means to deal with it which would have been less costly in money and human casualties, especially civilian casualties.

That's what happens when our leaders ignore the Constitution.
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

Massive government spending for WWII pulled us out of the depression. And after the war massive government spending kept us from falling back into recession. Without government programs like the GI Bill we would have never got back on our feet.

The difference between Iraq and WWII is we already had all the men and materials. We didn't have to build thousands of planes, ships and tanks or draft millions of men. That is why the present wars are draining the economy instead of boosting it. Nation building is expensive and is hurting our country.

Yeah but it doesnt really work that way. Just because we had the gear doesnt mean we didnt have to spend. War is exspensive and the more war materials you have the better your chance of victory even with poor leadership. America can not afford to lose this war. If we lose AND fall deeply into debt kiss our Super Power status goodbye. We have to lead the world or who will? China? Russia? We'll see how well that goes.
 
I agree with war if it is for self defense. Since we have not been invaded by a foreign country I think that the war was too much of a knee jerk reactionary response to 9-11.

There were other means to deal with it which would have been less costly in money and human casualties, especially civilian casualties.

That's what happens when our leaders ignore the Constitution.

WHAT????
:rofl:doh:rofl:doh:rofl
Are you serious? Other way to deal with an attack that cost American lives on American soil???? No. War was the only response. We showed the world that if you **** with America you get ****ed back twice as hard.
 
Charles Martel, I think he was making a moral point and you are making a military point.

Is this war moral?

Is this the time to be asking that? Would you like to stand there with a bullhorn behind our troops as they awake every morning? Should they take you with them on patrol and on point with your bullhorn asking each trooper to their face if this is a "moral war?"

No Sir, my point is very moral. We owe EVERYTHING to those souls now on the battlefield in American uniform. We do not have moral arguments once our Congress has specifically authorized war, Sir, that is an insane endeavor. Argue strategy...argue whether a soldier's behavior is moral, argue tactics and even change them when necessary. Arguing about being there.....isn't appropriate. Yer there. You're in the thick of the fight, swords have already been drawn.

Whining....opposition based on "moral war" isn't relevant, these questions need to be answered beforehand...or after. We've men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan, Yemen and Pakistan. They come first. How more moral can you possibly be? And opposing them for political reasons...is there any greater immorality.

Tighten the chin strap, Junior. Put your mouthpiece back in, quit talking, the ball has already been snapped. Standing there whining resolved to inaction is immoral, but, we'll have that discussion when we get back home. Right now, what say you get back in the game...the ball has been snapped.;)
 
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It's beginning to sound like "Planet Of The Apes" on this topic.:rofl
 
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Is this the time to be asking that? Would you like to stand there with a bullhorn behind our troops as they awake every morning? Should they take you with them on patrol and on point with your bullhorn asking each trooper to their face if this is a "moral war?"

No Sir, my point is very moral. We owe EVERYTHING to those souls now on the battlefield in American uniform. We do not have moral arguments once our Congress has specifically authorized war, Sir, that is an insane endeavor. Argue strategy...argue whether a soldier's behavior is moral, argue tactics and even change them when necessary. Arguing about being there.....isn't appropriate. Yer there. You're in the thick of the fight, swords have already been drawn.

Whining....opposition based on "moral war" isn't relevant, these questions need to be answered beforehand...or after. We've men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan, Yemen and Pakistan. They come first. How more moral can you possibly be? And opposing them for political reasons...that is the immorality.

Tighten the chin strap, Junior. Put your mouthpiece back in, quit talking, the ball has already been snapped. Standing there whining resolved to inaction is immoral, but, we'll have that discussion when we get back home. Right now, what say you get back in the game...the ball has been snapped.;)

:shock: You just did EXACTLY what the leaders of this war are doing.
They say we're there now isnt the time. NOW IS THE TIME because later we might not be fighting. We arent going to wait until the fighting ends to say "Hey maybe we shouldnt have done that." How and why DO matter and always will. We refuse to ignore the fact that our kids are dying and the leaders of the Armed Forces are to blame! Do not sit there and tell me that this war is happening and that morality doesnt matter. If morals didnt matter we'd have nuked every single country we thought might even be close to sheltering terrorist after those damn planes almmed our buildings!!!!
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

Yeah but it doesnt really work that way. Just because we had the gear doesnt mean we didnt have to spend. War is exspensive and the more war materials you have the better your chance of victory even with poor leadership. America can not afford to lose this war. If we lose AND fall deeply into debt kiss our Super Power status goodbye. We have to lead the world or who will? China? Russia? We'll see how well that goes.

We will have spent over 2 trillion dollars and lost thousands of lives to replace one corrupt regime with another corrupt regime. It's time to claim victory and let the three factions sort it out. You are right about poor leadership. Had we had competent leadership the two wars would have been over 5 years ago.
We are spending a lot but I was pointing out how Iraq is dragging us down while WWII pulled us out of a recession. Iraq will have increased our debt by trillions when it's all over.
 
Max,

Have you ever been outside the city limits?

Don't have a cow, for goodness sake.;)
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

We will have spent over 2 trillion dollars and lost thousands of lives to replace one corrupt regime with another corrupt regime. It's time to claim victory and let the three factions sort it out. You are right about poor leadership. Had we had competent leadership the two wars would have been over 5 years ago.
We are spending a lot but I was pointing out how Iraq is dragging us down while WWII pulled us out of a recession. Iraq will have increased our debt by trillions when it's all over.

Is money not worth victory and helping innocent people?
 
:rofl
The military CAN but ISN'T. This is due to our military leaders failure to actually come up with a plan of attack that can actually defeat our enemies. We keep trying the same thing over and over. Throwing money and men at this war is obviously not ending it.:doh

The military can fight the Muslim Brotherhood? Please explain how.
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

Is money not worth victory and helping innocent people?

There are hundreds of millions of innocent people sufferering all over the world. We can't help them all.
Wait. Didn't we attack Iraq to disarm it of WMDs and change regimes? Spending our trillions of dollars to help people in a country with one of the largest oil reserves in the world just doesn't do it for me.
Why would you rather spend money helping innocent people over there instead of over here?
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

There are hundreds of millions of innocent people sufferering all over the world. We can't help them all.
Wait. Didn't we attack Iraq to disarm it of WMDs and change regimes? Spending our trillions of dollars to help people in a country with one of the largest oil reserves in the world just doesn't do it for me.
Why would you rather spend money helping innocent people over there instead of over here?

:rofl
WMDs in Iraq = Excuse to invade

Also, help people in our country? America is famous for that right? :rofl We rarely help ourselves. Know why? Because we have it good. Not perfect but better than most even now.
 
No Max. I just needed a little comic relief.

You really should read some of James Madison's writings, though. He was a lot smarter than I am. If you read him maybe it will enlighten you.
 
Not all wars are fought at the point of a sword or down the sight of a gun.

Got a history book in your home, your explanation found there.;)

My point gentlemen is that the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be attacked with military means. The military is superb at conventional warfare. They are damn good at counterinsurgency and intelligence. They are not very good at information warfare. That is something better suited for the CIA and the State Department, as well as some unknown agencies of both the government and the private sector.

So, what specifically can the MILITARY do against the Muslim Brotherhood. What do the history books tell us Charles?
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

:rofl
WMDs in Iraq = Excuse to invade

Also, help people in our country? America is famous for that right? :rofl We rarely help ourselves. Know why? Because we have it good. Not perfect but better than most even now.

So in your mind Bush invaded Iraq to help innocent people?:rofl That's a good one.

History will show that invading Iraq was one of the greatest mistakes ever made. As soon as we leave the three factions will commence fighting over the oil again and we will just have to go back in and on and on and on....
 
Bugs,

Get your ass back on topic or get out of the forum.

Thanks. :)


Jawohl, mein Führer!:roll:

Some of the ways to fight the war on terrorism:

1. Follow the money. Track down the terrorists bank accounts and sabatoge them.

2. Propaganda. We have the best propaganda apparatus in the world. Get Disney to help. Get the advertising industry to use subliminal messages to brainwash and make our enemies look demonic.

3. Use covert methods to undermine the enemy, including sabotage and assassination. A bullet is cheaper than a drone missile.

4. Hire Oliver stone as our propaganda czar.

5. Bombard their airwaves with Barbra Streisand's "People" 24/7 and drive them insane.

6. Put lsd in their water supply.

7. Put a bounty on them and hire Dog, the Bounty Hunter.

8. Make sure that our agents know or learn arabic. Most of them can understand english unlike some of the poster here.
 
My point gentlemen is that the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be attacked with military means.

And my question was, do you own a history book? What "means" has been used to attack this "Muslim Brotherhood" to great success before?

The military is superb at conventional warfare. They are damn good at counterinsurgency and intelligence. They are not very good at information warfare. That is something better suited for the CIA and the State Department, as well as some unknown agencies of both the government and the private sector.

But...once the CIA and State departments give information...like where al-Qaeda camps are, where leadership currently resides...whose turn at bat then cause...the CIA and State Depts ain't soldiers.

So, what specifically can the MILITARY do against the Muslim Brotherhood. What do the history books tell us Charles?

Look up the conflicts with the Muslim Brotherhoods throughout history. Whether with this nation, Christianity, or Israel. How were those conflicts ended?
 
And my question was, do you own a history book? What "means" has been used to attack this "Muslim Brotherhood" to great success before?

I am no expert on the MB. I do know that it started in Egypt. There are offshoots in Gaza (Hamas), I think Lebanon (Hezbollah), Europe and the US. Each of these groups operates appropriate to it's environment.

Egypt - mainly a political organization with representation in Egypt's parliament. Mubarak has severely suppressed the MB with his security forces over the years to little effect. MB is alive and well.

Gaza - Hamas is in charge, armed and capable of launching annoyance attacks into Israel. It is a complete operation in that it has a political arm and a military arm and the political arm provides education, health care, etc in outreach ops. MB is alive and well.

Lebanon - Hezbollah is in charge in southern Lebanon. It has representation in Lebanon's government, including either the PM or the President, I believe. Capable of starting a war, either internally or externally. A complete operation in theat it has a political arm and a military arm and the political arm provides education, health care, etc in outreach ops. MB is alive and well.

Europe - Intelligence and information warfare operations. Influential with the governments in influencing perceptions and actions with respect to the muslim population. MB is alive and well.

US - Intelligence and information warfare operations. Influential with the government in influencing perceptions and actions with respect to the muslim population. Consults and teaches classes at the FBI, DHS, State, CIA?, DoD on relations with the muslim population. Collects donations for activities in the US and the ME. Operates schools. Recruits in Mosques. Trains muslims in small unit combat ops. MB is alive and well.

No means have been successful in combating the MB.

But...once the CIA and State departments give information...like where al-Qaeda camps are, where leadership currently resides...whose turn at bat then cause...the CIA and State Depts ain't soldiers.

Most MB organizations are not involved in combat ops, except Hamas and Hezbollah. They are not breaking the law, although they are self-declared "at war". Sedition/Treason may apply.

Look up the conflicts with the Muslim Brotherhoods throughout history. Whether with this nation, Christianity, or Israel. How were those conflicts ended?

They have not ended.
 
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