• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama wants record $708 billion for military next year [edited]

I am no expert on the MB...

Lebanon - Hezbollah is in charge in southern Lebanon. It has representation in Lebanon's government, including either the PM or the President, I believe. Capable of starting a war, either internally or externally. A complete operation in theat it has a political arm and a military arm and the political arm provides education, health care, etc in outreach ops. MB is alive and well.

On second thought, Hezbollah is a Shiite organization and has nothing to do with the Muslim Brotherhood, other than duplicating some of its strategies and operations. There may be an MB organization among the Sunni population of Lebanon; I don't know.
 
They have not ended.

Neither has Israel nor our presence in the ME. The Muslim Brotherhoods, al-Qaeda, what are their goals? Israel going away and the US out of the ME....correct?
 
Neither has Israel nor our presence in the ME. The Muslim Brotherhoods, al-Qaeda, what are their goals? Israel going away and the US out of the ME....correct?

According to Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the first primary goal is:

- reinstatement of the caliphate and reunite the "dar el Islam."

This would entail the overthrow of all ME regimes and the restitution on Sharia law. This is much more than Israel or US opposition.

Interesting to read about their intentions in the US: Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which says:

One of these document, dated in 1991, explains that the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood in the U.S. is “settlement”, defined as a form of jihad aimed at destroying Western civilization from within and allowing for the victory of Islam over other religions.[81] In another one of these documents, "Ikhwan in America", it is revealed that the activities of the Muslim Brotherhood in the US include going to camps to do weapons training (referred to as Special work by the Muslim Brotherhood),[82] as well as engaging in counter-espionage against US government agencies such as the FBI and CIA
 
According to Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the first primary goal is:

- reinstatement of the caliphate and reunite the "dar el Islam."

This would entail the overthrow of all ME regimes and the restitution on Sharia law. This is much more than Israel or US opposition.

Interesting to read about their intentions in the US: Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which says:

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

DID YOU JUST USE WIKIPEDIA AS A SOURCE???
 
Jawohl, mein Führer!:roll:

Some of the ways to fight the war on terrorism:

1. Follow the money. Track down the terrorists bank accounts and sabatoge them.

2. Propaganda. We have the best propaganda apparatus in the world. Get Disney to help. Get the advertising industry to use subliminal messages to brainwash and make our enemies look demonic.

3. Use covert methods to undermine the enemy, including sabotage and assassination. A bullet is cheaper than a drone missile.

4. Hire Oliver stone as our propaganda czar.

5. Bombard their airwaves with Barbra Streisand's "People" 24/7 and drive them insane.

6. Put lsd in their water supply.

7. Put a bounty on them and hire Dog, the Bounty Hunter.

8. Make sure that our agents know or learn arabic. Most of them can understand english unlike some of the poster here.

Ok. Seriously. I can appreciate some good humor. But now you're annoying. I really dont wanna earn points. So please get on topic. All that crap is impractical or immoral.
 
- reinstatement of the caliphate and reunite the "dar el Islam."

Reinstate by.....getting Jews and Christians out....right?

This would entail the overthrow of all ME regimes and the restitution on Sharia law.

How they doin? Invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq work towards this end?

This is much more than Israel or US opposition.

But cannot occur with US presence and Israel's existence.
 
Reinstate by.....getting Jews and Christians out....right?

Not necessary.



This would entail the overthrow of all ME regimes and the restitution on Sharia law.
How they doin? Invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq work towards this end?

They are ancillary to MB efforts. There is only a small MB influence in either state. Are you confusing Al Qaeda with the Muslim Brotherhood? They are distinct. The MB would be happy with regime change in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, African countries.

But cannot occur with US presence and Israel's existence.
Not necessarily true as I mentioned above. However, the US presence does secure many of the regional regimes.
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

man-emp.png
Tell me Harry, what was the percentage of information technology workers in 1939, how about healthcare?
 
Not necessary.





They are ancillary to MB efforts. There is only a small MB influence in either state. Are you confusing Al Qaeda with the Muslim Brotherhood? They are distinct. The MB would be happy with regime change in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, African countries.


Not necessarily true as I mentioned above. However, the US presence does secure many of the regional regimes.

Bottom line is this, With the U.S. and Israel in the picture the MB can't "win". And while we might not be able to win at least we keep them from winning. And it's not always about winning. Just not losing.
 
Re: Obama wants record $708 billion for wars next year

Tell me Harry, what was the percentage of information technology workers in 1939, how about healthcare?

Heathcare is a drain on an economy. It does not create wealth. Someday everyone will either work for the government or in heathcare and then we won't be able to buy all those Chinese goods.
We are losing IT jobs faster than they are being created. Manufacturing and agriculture create wealth for a country.

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/exportingamerica/outsourcing_problems.cfm

Since 2001, the nation has lost more than 2.5 million manufacturing jobs and more than 850,000 professional service and information sector jobs. No one knows for sure how many of these jobs have been lost due to increased import competition and shifts in production abroad, since no comprehensive official data are collected. Various independent estimates indicate the number of white-collar jobs lost to shipping work overseas over the past few years is in the hundreds of thousands and millions are at risk in the next five to ten years. But the number of jobs lost need not be overwhelming in order to concern policymakers: increased overseas outsourcing also undermines wages and working conditions in those jobs left behind and threatens the long-term health of the economy.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line is this, With the U.S. and Israel in the picture the MB can't "win". And while we might not be able to win at least we keep them from winning. And it's not always about winning. Just not losing.

That's a good point.

The problem is that as ME countries become more democratic, and I expect them to over time, the MB will gain influence electorally. There will continue the struggle between moderates and extremists - between secularists and Sharia religionists. In many places, the extremists are winning. We don't hear moderate voices from the muslim world.

We still have many challenges ahead and they aren't all solvable by the military.
 
Are you confusing Al Qaeda with the Muslim Brotherhood? They are distinct. The MB would be happy with regime change in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, African countries.

They are similar in many ways and one cannot limit this debate to the MB. They both want a Sharia that dominates state governments, they want no part of self-determination. They would like to see regime change as well in Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Islamic States. And they are both militantly opposed to US presence and Israeli existence.

Not necessarily true as I mentioned above.

So, the primary goal...this Islamic Caliphate..is possible with an American supported Jewish State occupying Palestine and Jerusalem...and the United States steaming Strait up the Hormuz of Arabia on a daily basis? I think not.

However, the US presence does secure many of the regional regimes

And makes insecure the interests and goals of both the MB and al-Qaeda. And if you say these two wars ancillary to either group's primary goals...uhhh yea...ok. I'm sure elections in these two nations and the democratic cries from Iran signal prosperity and a bright future if you're a Sharia Law fan.:roll:
 
They are similar in many ways and one cannot limit this debate to the MB.

They are also different in many ways pertinent to the conversation. Al Qaeda can be militarily opposed. MB cannot (with the exception of Hamas).

And they are both militantly opposed to US presence and Israeli existence.

MB is not militantly opposed to the US in any locale.

So, the primary goal...this Islamic Caliphate..is possible with an American supported Jewish State occupying Palestine and Jerusalem...and the United States steaming Strait up the Hormuz of Arabia on a daily basis? I think not.

Not the full caliphate, but the existing sunni states could certainly fall to MB, especially if they switch to free and fair elections.

It is MB activities within the US which concern me, and I don't mean them going out and shooting weapons in the woods. It is the access they have to intelligence decision makers that are of concern. The MB organization here in the US reportedly determine course content for domestic intelligence operation training in these government institutions. Who the hell gave them that access???

And makes insecure the interests and goals of both the MB and al-Qaeda. And if you say these two wars ancillary to either group's primary goals...uhhh yea...ok. I'm sure elections in these two nations and the democratic cries from Iran signal prosperity and a bright future if you're a Sharia Law fan.:roll:

I agree there is some promise in Iraq and a teeny bit in Iran. Afghanistan not so much. Of course, the Shiite leadership in Iraq seems to not care for us much. But the MB is a Sunni thing. One thing is for sure: the stability of the ME has not increased. That was a goal of OIF of course. Let's hope it plays our way with moderates coming to power in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Yemen, SA, Egypt, Turkey ...
 
One thing is for sure: the stability of the ME has not increased. That was a goal of OIF of course....

Stability has not increased?

Let's take a look at the ME when W takes office. Afghanistan...is wholesale unstable. The Taliban in power and harboring the terrorist group that would unleash the mother of all terror attacks. Al-Qaeda had declared war on us, attacked us all over the world in Yemen, in Saudi Arabia, and had 19 to 21 terrorists sitting in the US waiting to unleash 9-11. Iraq ruled by a completely unstable Saddam Hussein who started wars in each of the last 3 decades. Syria and Iran facilitating terrorists as they do today via Hamas and Hezbollah fighting a proxy war with Israel.

Today, Saddam Hussein is dead. The international community has united(to a degree) against Iran's nuclear program. Afghanistan has seen the Taliban thrown from power and even though the Taliban still control parts of both Pakistan and Afghanistan, the situation is clearly more stable then it was. The Palestinian issue I think we've solved...the solution of the two state reality, it's just how we get there that remains unsolved.

I see the ME stabilizing, why do you see otherwise?
 
I see the ME stabilizing, why do you see otherwise?

It has certainly changed, and much for the better. I just wouldn't call it stabilizing. There is still a LOT of unsettled business.
 
Stability has not increased?

Let's take a look at the ME when W takes office. Afghanistan...is wholesale unstable. The Taliban in power and harboring the terrorist group that would unleash the mother of all terror attacks. Al-Qaeda had declared war on us, attacked us all over the world in Yemen, in Saudi Arabia, and had 19 to 21 terrorists sitting in the US waiting to unleash 9-11. Iraq ruled by a completely unstable Saddam Hussein who started wars in each of the last 3 decades. Syria and Iran facilitating terrorists as they do today via Hamas and Hezbollah fighting a proxy war with Israel.

Today, Saddam Hussein is dead. The international community has united(to a degree) against Iran's nuclear program. Afghanistan has seen the Taliban thrown from power and even though the Taliban still control parts of both Pakistan and Afghanistan, the situation is clearly more stable then it was. The Palestinian issue I think we've solved...the solution of the two state reality, it's just how we get there that remains unsolved.

I see the ME stabilizing, why do you see otherwise?

All George did was spread instability over a wider area. Now Al Qaeda and the Taliban are getting closer to Pakistani nukes. . The only reason full blown civil war hasn't broken out in Iraq is because we still have tropps there. Like it or not Saddam brought stability to Iraq. Not to mention the new corrupt Iraqi government likes Iran better than they like us. Yeah, we are a lot safer now.:roll:
 
I once read "The Source" by James Michener. It is a novel about the Six Day War and the history of the area.

One part in the book that I vividly remember is when some characters in the book were discussing why Israel defeated their enemies so easy.

I am just para phrasing but it went something like this. ""The reason we defeated them was because their armies and the Arabs were so corrupt that they sold their own weapon and vehicles on their way to the battle."

I lived in a Muslim country for six months once. A person has to pay a bribe to someone for something like renting an apartment, like I did. You could not even use their postal service to have money sent to you as I unfortunately found out.

The book starts out with the worship of by the people of a giant rock. As it progresses it is told through the eyes of an archeology team there digging through the ruins of ancient civilizations. It explains that the area has been at war since the worship of the rock.

Even though it is fiction it is a good read.
 
I wonder how much Hussein Obama iss going to give for a pay raise next year........This year for the first time in 30 years they got noting..........Thanks Hussein...........

Actually, you are wrong:

On December 19, 2009, the Senate passed and President Obama signed into law, the appropriations bill to pay for the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010 that the president signed back on October 28, 2009, which stated, "Increase in Basic Pay Effective on January 1, 2010, the rates of monthly basic pay for members of the uniformed services are increased by 3.4 percent."

SOURCE

I understand you hate the President. But don't just outright tell lies. Please do some research.

It's called "Google", I was able to find the evidence to prove you wrong in about 14 seconds.
 
Actually, you are wrong:



SOURCE

I understand you hate the President. But don't just outright tell lies. Please do some research.

It's called "Google", I was able to find the evidence to prove you wrong in about 14 seconds.

Oh! That's what he was saying? I could not understand because I can't read asterisks.

Here's a side note. Social Security did not get a cola increase this year. That's becuasue your average politician does not know what a loaf of bread cost these days.

Unthank you Obama. If I would have known he was going to that that I would have voted for Michael Moore.
 
Back
Top Bottom