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Thread: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Not true. There were two distinct victors. The US and the Soviets and Stalin was as bad or worse than Hitler.
    stalin wasnt as bad as hitler, he wasnt as discriminatory, it was basically anyone he didnt like died, hitler focussed on certain minorities

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Ah, you must be close to midlife crisis. 59?

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's your fault for making specious comparisons though.
    What comparisons? I said he would be at the forefront of people like you who haven't read a single book in their lives but somehow have an opinion on everything.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Ive racked my brain trying to think how Hitler will be shown in 'context'.

    Hearing him speak about the path from WWI to WWII....perhaps this will be his game.

    It can be said that the rabid hypernationalism bought on by the sanctions in Versaille treaty which crippled both the German elite and the common German alike allowed Hitler to gain the support of his people.To go this route wont Stone have to establish WWI Germany as a victim or an unwilling participant? This is patently false. If anything they pushed Austria-Hungary into a conflict that was guaranteed to topple the dominos of the various allies into a full blown continental war,remember the 'blank cheque'? He could also point to the fact that Hitler originally was only going to deport the Jews away and that he was somehow convinced by those around him that extermination was the best course of action.Not buying this either. The subordinates of Hitler adored him and strived to satisfy his wants and needs.What he wanted and what he obviously felt Germany needed was for the Jews to be gone one way or the other. This was his platform from the very beginning.
    Someone told me once that there's a right and wrong,
    and that punishment would come to those who dare to cross the line. - TooL

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Not true. There were two distinct victors. The US and the Soviets and Stalin was as bad or worse than Hitler.
    LOL the hell there was.. Stop this revisionist crap. The Soviets were part of the Allies and key member. Without them the Allies would never have won. It was not the Allies and the Soviets, it was the Allies full stop and that included the UK, France, Poland at the start and later on the Soviets added and even later the US. There was other nations also btw.. governments in exile and so on, but the big wigs were the UK, France, USSR and the US.

    But yes Stalin was just as bad.. well in my view worse actually, than Hitler, but that does not change the fact that Hilter was used as a scapegoat by all the Allies.

    The Soviets blamed him and Nazi Germany for massacares they did for example. The Soviets killed the polish officers and blamed the Germans. The Soviets used KGB troops to kill normal troops who fled and blamed often the Germans for the deaths.

    The US and UK blamed Hitler and his cronies for the disappearance of art across Europe and then decades later they suddenly turn up in US or UK "ownership". While I have no doubt the Nazi's stole a buttload of art, it is also very evident that allied troops "liberated" some of that and took it home. The western Allies blamed the Germans for bombing their cities.. yes that was true, but they still got the blame when the Allies went and killed 10s of thousands in deliberately set fire storms in German cities. Sure it was war, but the Germans got the blame for their own fate, and the people who actually made the call to use such a diabolical weapon got off scot free.

    Or the modern myth that has been promoted since the war, that it was Hitler that basically started the eugenics programs with forced sterilizations, and targeted Jews or people looking like Jews for discrimination. No he did not, far from it. That came from the US and Sweden pretty much, but he gets all the blame despite the practices being used all the way up to the late 1970s among "Allied nations". We all cringe at the fact that handicapped and other undesirables were forced sterilized and even killed in Germany, but very few know that this was happening in the US, Sweden and other places long before Hitler even got to power.

    Sorry but Hitler gets blamed for many things, much of it fully justified, but some of it was in no way his fault or that of Nazi Germany.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    stalin wasnt as bad as hitler, he wasnt as discriminatory, it was basically anyone he didnt like died, hitler focussed on certain minorities
    So did Stalin. He forced moved regional minorities to different parts of the USSR (usually from fertile areas to crappy areas) so that the area could become more "soviet". An estimated 1.5 million people were forced to move elsewhere after the war by Stalin.

    He had gulags, which were concentration camps without the gas chamber and one can easily argue that more died in those than in Hitlers camps.

    Stalin was as bad if not worse than Hitler.. Hitler did not force troops forward by having death squads come up behind them so they had a choice.. attack and die or retreat and die.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 01-14-10 at 09:56 AM.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    "Men have always admired those who do evil brilliantly"

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    fyi Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    Scapegoats refers to the innocent. Hitler was a villain who got what he deserved. Or was he just a patsy, like Lee Harvey Oswald?
    "Scapegoat" is a term meaning "One that is made to bear the blame of others."

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    Question Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So did Stalin. He forced moved regional minorities to different parts of the USSR (usually from fertile areas to crappy areas) so that the area could become more "soviet". An estimated 1.5 million people were forced to move elsewhere after the war by Stalin.

    He had gulags, which were concentration camps without the gas chamber and one can easily argue that more died in those than in Hitlers camps.

    Stalin was as bad if not worse than Hitler.. Hitler did not force troops forward by having death squads come up behind them so they had a choice.. attack and die or retreat and die.
    So one minute you say Hitler deserves to bear the blame...then you say Stalin is worse? Which is your actual view?

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    Re: Oliver Stone: Hitler an easy scapegoat

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    "Men have always admired those who do evil brilliantly"

    "Evil" is used to define a course of action that our morals or religion dictates as inappropiate. What Hitler and Stalin did was not evil. It was just a course of action. Do not say any man is evil. Evil and wrong are points of view and regardless of how many people might see things that way as long as one person disagrees then the point of view is not universal and your opinion is not fact.

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