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New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

Coronado said:
Really. So you can read minds now? Fascinating.

You are pretty much alone in this contention, by the way.
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I don't have to read minds..........He was the president's lawyer to the SCOTUS until he stepped down.you need to catch up........
 
Let's cement those goal posts, shall we?

Conservative - Conservapedia

A conservative adheres to principles of limited government, personal responsibility and moral values, agreeing with George Washington's Farewell Address that "religion and morality are indispensable supports" to political prosperity.

Former President Ronald Reagan said:

* The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom . . .

Ronald Reagan, the 40th President of the United States, is the epitome of American conservatism.

The sine qua non of a conservative is someone who rises above his personal self-interest and promotes moral and economic values beneficial to all, rather than to themselves as liberals promote. Alternatively, a conservative is willing to learn and advocate the insights of economics and the morality of the Bible for the benefit of all as is well known the Bible is the ultimate standard in logic. Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

* Classroom prayer
* Prohibition of abortion
* Abstinence education
* Traditional marriage, not same-sex marriage
* Respect for differences between men and women, boys and girls
* Laws against pornography
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* The death penalty
* Parental control of education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Canceling failed social support programs
* No world government
* Enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Respect for our military ... past and present
* Rejection of junk science such as evolutionism and global warming
* Low taxes, especially for families
* Conferderationism (less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments)
* A strong national defense


***
For gay 'marriage to be a Conservative issue, it must be a selfless institution at least loosely based on biblical morals.

I can argue it because I actually believe what I say. You can't argue it because the argument is not but a means to an end for you.
 
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Navy Pride said:
I don't have to read minds..........He was the president's lawyer to the SCOTUS until he stepped down.you need to catch up........
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And that has what to do with him no longer being a conservative??
 
Jerry said:
Let's cement those goal posts, shall we?

Conservative - Conservapedia

A conservative adheres to principles of limited government, personal responsibility and moral values, agreeing with George Washington's Farewell Address that "religion and morality are indispensable supports" to political prosperity.

Former President Ronald Reagan said:

* The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom . . .

Ronald Reagan, the 40th President of the United States, is the epitome of American conservatism.

The sine qua non of a conservative is someone who rises above his personal self-interest and promotes moral and economic values beneficial to all, rather than to themselves as liberals promote. Alternatively, a conservative is willing to learn and advocate the insights of economics and the morality of the Bible for the benefit of all as is well known the Bible is the ultimate standard in logic. Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

* Classroom prayer
* Prohibition of abortion
* Abstinence education
* Traditional marriage, not same-sex marriage
* Respect for differences between men and women, boys and girls
* Laws against pornography
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* The death penalty
* Parental control of education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Canceling failed social support programs
* No world government
* Enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Respect for our military ... past and present
* Rejection of junk science such as evolutionism and global warming
* Low taxes, especially for families
* Conferderationism (less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments)
* A strong national defense


***
For gay 'marriage to be a Conservative issue, it must be a selfless institution at least loosely based on biblical morals.

I can argue it because I actually believe what I say. You can't argue it because the argument is not but a means to an end for you.
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You are mixing up Conservatives with Neoconservatives.
 
ScottD said:
You are mixing up Conservatives with Neoconservatives.
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"Conservative" covers all sub-types of Conservative just as American covers all sub-types of Americans.
 
Taylor said:
My summary is entirely consistent with what she says:


My point was that while many researchers claim there is "no difference" - other researchers rexamining the data may disagree. In this instance, the authors detail several differences that they interpret in a positive light.

People can read the article for themselves to determine whether or not they agree that the differences are positive.
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So, can we agree that these differences could be, on a large scale, similar to the differences one might find in two successful families... both of which do well, but do so differently?


I left the interpretation up to the reader, who can read about the differences themselves and interpret as they wish (positive/negative/neutral). In the article it's true that Stacey interprets many of these as benefits, not mere differences.
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If you left the interpretation to the reader, you would not have made this point:

Taylor said:
Actually, that's not true.

You claimed earlier that "there is no correlation between children of same sex couple being more likely to become gay" - there indeed has been some work that disputes that. See for example: Stacey, J. & Biblarz, T.J. (2001). (How) does the sexual orientation of parents matter? American Sociological Review, 66, 159-183.
http://www.soc.iastate.edu/soc522a/PDF readings/Stacey.pdf

These are pro-gay marriage authors who (in reviewing existing research) conclude that evidence exists for at least a small positive correlation between parental sexual orientation and that of their children.

Other researchers have also pointed to articles that claim "no difference" in their abstracts, but apparent differences in the data.
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Now, I am still curious as to how YOU would interpret the data from the study.
 
Didn't look at this thread much today. From my perception, seems like there is a lot of misinterpretation going on from both sides.

Jerry and I have argued from the family perspective of GM for quite a while. This is the "winning" position. My view is, probably, a little more flexible. Research shows that marriage is both individually healthy and societally healthy regardless of children... though children seal the deal. Government wants a stable society, so that the society will grow and remain established. This can best come about through a healthy populace (physical and emotional), financial and situational stability, and the rearing of children, all of which best occur through marriage. IF children are present, they are best served in a two parent household, regardless of the sex of the parents. However, the benefits to the individuals and society at large are still present in the absence of children.
 
Jerry said:
Let's cement those goal posts, shall we?

Conservative - Conservapedia
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Conservapedia? :lol:
You must be either joking or be really desperate to quote from a 'source' like this.

let's have a quick look at this smut:
The sine qua non of a conservative is someone who rises above his personal self-interest and promotes moral and economic values beneficial to all, rather than to themselves as liberals promote.
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Liberals promote "moral and economic values beneficial" to themselves? :lol:

Alternatively, a conservative is willing to learn and advocate the insights of economics and the morality of the Bible for the benefit of all as is well known the Bible is the ultimate standard in logic.
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On which planet does this guy live?

Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

* Classroom prayer
...
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Wow, really? I doubt this is true even for US conservatives.

***
For gay 'marriage to be a Conservative issue, it must be a selfless institution at least loosely based on biblical morals.
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What's a "selfless intitution", is hetero marriage one?
 
ScottD said:
You are mixing up Conservatives with Neoconservatives.
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EXACTLY. True Conservatives would cringe if they saw that list. Over 1/2 the things on Jerry list call for big government which is the cornerstone of neo-conservativism (no wonder he got thanks from NP...:doh)
 
Gay Marriage on Track in Catholic Portugal - Sphere News

Another nation is about to legalize gay marriage.

Its just a matter of time. The dominoes are falling. Unfortunately, the United States has a history of trailing the rest of the world when it comes to human rights. However, the results of this "war" have been written..."if not tommorrow...then the day after that".
 
Navy Pride said:
What did they do? Ban you at WS?
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Nope, never banned!

But this debate comes up constantly, and no matter how much evidence is produced, the True Believers are convinced that the founding fathers were all devout Christians and that only Christrians have morality and so on.

I just didn't want to have to go through that again! :mrgreen:
 
disneydude said:
EXACTLY. True Conservatives would cringe if they saw that list. Over 1/2 the things on Jerry list call for big government which is the cornerstone of neo-conservativism (no wonder he got thanks from NP...:doh)
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What is the cornerstone of neo-conservatism?
 
bicycleman said:
Provide proof it's not.
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Please forgive me if I don't, as it would be a waste of time, having done so in the past to no avail.

It's kind of like trying to convince a creationist that evolution is real -- it doesn't matter how much evidence you produce, his faith has convinced him.
 
Groucho said:
Please forgive me if I don't, as it would be a waste of time, having done so in the past to no avail.

It's kind of like trying to convince a creationist that evolution is real -- it doesn't matter how much evidence you produce, his faith has convinced him.
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I have seen no evidence so your argument is null and void.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
So, can we agree that these differences could be, on a large scale, similar to the differences one might find in two successful families... both of which do well, but do so differently?
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Sure there are differences between families. But here, we can account for some of the variation based on the parent's sexual orientation. Nonetheless, (as the authors point out), research on gay parenting is still in its infancy, and studies tend to suffer from many methodological problems (small sample size, volunteer sampling, etc.) It may be that when more represenative samples of the gay population are studied that these differences go away, or that others present... won't know until we do the research.

One of the main points they make is that researchers are hurting the science in overlooking/whitewashing differences.
 
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