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New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

CaptainCourtesy said:
Truthfully, to me this is irrelevant. NJ already has civil unions which affords gay couples rights for adoptions, benefits, and other things that married couples have. Though my overall position is that the term "marriage" should be used only for religious purposes and all governmental unions should be "civil unions"... gay or straight, the way that NJ handles it currently, is fine by me. I'm not sure why this is a big deal.
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The real fight is not of rights, but of validating an identity.
 
Jerry said:
The real fight is not of rights, but of validating an identity.
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Duh. Just as women were validating their identity with the suffrage movement and blacks were validating their identity with the civil rights movement. The contention is that conservatives simply don't think gay is an identity. They think it is a choice.
 
CriticalThought said:
Duh. Just as women were validating their identity with the suffrage movement and blacks were validating their identity with the civil right movement. The contention is that conservatives simply don't think gay is an identity. They think it is a choice.
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From the link:
c. Although same-sex couples may enter into civil unions, nonetheless New Jersey’s discriminatory exclusion of these couples from marriage further harms same-sex couples and their families by denying them unique public recognition and affirmation
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So, little Johny still has a Mom and a Mommy, and they each have every civil right that an opposite-sex couple have...so please evidence this harm caused by the state refusing the word.
 
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CriticalThought said:
Duh. Just as women were validating their identity with the suffrage movement and blacks were validating their identity with the civil rights movement. The contention is that conservatives simply don't think gay is an identity. They think it is a choice.
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We simply have no other explanation. We can prove race and sex are not a choice. When you can prove homosexuality isn't, we are ready to talk about changing law for it.
 
Groucho said:
:shock:

Yeah, better to go along with the bigots for the sake of little Johnny!
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It always comes down to this for you left wingers...well all else fails name calling.......and we are called the intolerant ones........:roll:
 
Navy Pride said:
It always comes down to this for you left wingers...well all else fails name calling.......and we are called the intolerant ones........:roll:
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You have to love the bigot charge though since bigotry means intolerant of another person's position. Wonder if they ever actually thought about that definition? :2wave:
 
Taylor said:
Why is it that people on this forum have such trouble figuring out the purpose of various parts of the body? If it were something like the appendix, I might understand.
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You would think that these liberals would know the primary mission of the anus but it is obvious they don't..........
 
winston53660 said:
So if gay marriage were recognized just what harm would there be?
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If gay marriage were recognized you would have to recognize the marriages of all other kinds of groups defined by their sexual preference............
 
texmaster said:
You have to love the bigot charge though since bigotry means intolerant of another person's position. Wonder if they ever actually thought about that definition? :2wave:
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The Nazis have aptly shown what tolerance of intolerance can lead to.

US liberals are far too accomodating towards the unacceptable IMO.
 
Navy Pride said:
It always comes down to this for you left wingers...well all else fails name calling.......and we are called the intolerant ones........:roll:
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Hypocrite much? You just did it to me in this thread. :2wave:

The left has no monopoly on ignorance and stupidity. The right has proved this beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
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Jerry said:
From the link:


So, little Johny still has a Mom and a Mommy, and they each have every civil right that an opposite-sex couple have...so please evidence this harm caused by the state refusing the word.
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Aside from over a thousand federal rights they would be denied once DOMA is overturned?
 
roderic said:
The Nazis have aptly shown what tolerance of intolerance can lead to.

US liberals are far too accomodating towards the unacceptable IMO.
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Surely it didn't take this long for Godwin's Rule to be used......:shock:
 
Blackdog said:
Hypocrite much? You just did it to me in this thread. :2wave:

The left has no monopoly on ignorance and stupidity. The right has proved this beyond a reasonable doubt.
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What name did I call you my left wing friend?:confused:
 
Navy Pride said:
You would think that these liberals would know the primary mission of the anus but it is obvious they don't..........
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I love how you say you don't care about other people's sex lives and then you make statements like these. Of course, this has nothing to do with lesbians, or with gay men who don't have anal sex. But don't let the obvious get in your way of making such remarks.
 
roderic said:
The Nazis have aptly shown what tolerance of intolerance can lead to.

US liberals are far too accomodating towards the unacceptable IMO.
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So you miss the old Germany of 1939?
 
Navy Pride said:
If gay marriage were recognized you would have to recognize the marriages of all other kinds of groups defined by their sexual preference............
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Any particular reason for this, or is this just a typical rightwing kneejerk reaction when losing an argument?
 
CriticalThought said:
I love how you say you don't care about other people's sex lives and then you make statements like these. Of course, this has nothing to do with lesbians, or with gay men who don't have anal sex. But don't let the obvious get in your way of making such remarks.
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I don't care but that does not mean I don't know the primary mission of the anus as you seem to not know..............
 
Navy Pride said:
If gay marriage were recognized you would have to recognize the marriages of all other kinds of groups defined by their sexual preference............
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Do you mean like a man or woman marring their donkey? The last I checked donkeys are not allowed to enter into any type of contract like a marriage contract. And I do not see that happening in the future.
 
roderic said:
Any particular reason for this, or is this just a typical rightwing kneejerk reaction when losing an argument?
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Yes my left wing friend its called the 14th amendment, the equal protecttion clause..........
 
winston53660 said:
Do you mean like a man or woman marring their donkey? The last I checked donkeys are not allowed to enter into any type of contract like a marriage contract. And I do not see that happening in the future.
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You said that, not me..............
 
disneydude said:
Black....you've been arond long enough to see Navy jump to the defense of the Republican party at every attack.
When have you ever seen Navy say anything negative about the Republican party....yet......he's too ashamed to admit what he is.....and yet, he condemns others from hiding behind their profiles.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Conservative". If you define it as a big government social agenda...then yes....Navy is very conservative.
But that isn't how most people that I believe are true conservatives define themselves.
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What is a true conservative? Please define without using Wikipedia.
 
Navy Pride said:
If gay marriage were recognized you would have to recognize the marriages of all other kinds of groups defined by their sexual preference............
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Actually, you are wrong. Same sex marriage can be approved under the grounds that a strong evidence base shows that it is beneficial to both partcipants and that same sex couples can raise children just as well as different sex couples. Can you provide such an evidence base for polygamous families? Incestuous couples? People who want to have sex with animals or children? I don't think so.

In addition to that, up to 8 to 10 million children of gay parents and same sex couples would benefit from same sex marriage. Can you argue anywhere near that number of children would benefit from incestuous marriage? Polygamous marriage?

Trying to oversimply this argument isn't going to work. The parental evidence and number of children who would benefit are factors supporting same sex marriage, and there is no such parental evidence or number of children who would benefit from recognizing other forms of marriage like polygamy or incestuous.
 
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