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New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

disneydude said:
But that's what make America great, Navy....at least the America that was and should be......we are entitled to different opinions....everybody does not have to have yours.
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I can't disagree with you on that and thankfully DD you are on the wrong side of the issue........
 
Navy Pride said:
That is your opinion unfortunately for you most people don't feel that way.......
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It's accurate though. My hope is that folks become more enlightened and recognize that the word is pretty irrelevant.
 
Navy Pride said:
I can't disagree with you on that and thankfully DD you are on the wrong side of the issue........
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The wrong side for you....and that's ok. But why do you insist that everyone else is entitled to your opinion?
 
disneydude said:
Unfortunately no. I would love Obama to put a real liberal on the court. It isn't going to happen. Obama is a moderate. We knew that going into it. With the political climate in America today, it is unlikely a true liberal would be elected President. Obama's first choice was a moderate. I expect the next one will be as well.
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He did he put a racist liberal on the court.
 
Navy Pride said:
Even the Republican senator Susan Collins is moderate to left leaning and rarely votes with the conservatives.........Wake up and smell the roses my friend.........If Maine were a Conservative state they would have conservatives in the senate.........
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I never said it was a conservative state. I said:


jackalope said:
:no: Maine is not one of our most liberal states. It's pretty split in representation, and Independents outnumber both Democrats and Republicans in party affiliations.
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ptif219 said:
They are teaching in kindergarten that gay is normal. Then you have church splits caused by gay clergy ordained.
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Firstly, let's see some substantiation for this. Secondly, prove that gay is not normal. Also, if a church wants to do that, it is the church's business.

To say nothing of day of silence.
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Who says YOU have to be silent?
 
ptif219 said:
He did he put a racist liberal on the court.
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Oh please.....seriously....where do you get your information? Its too obvious that you listen to way too much right-wing propoganda.

Look at her voting record. She is HARDLY a liberal. I wish she were...but she is extremely moderate. My only hope is that with a lifetime appointment, maybe there is a liberal side of her that will come out...but based on her history...I doubt it.
 
disneydude said:
BS. You need to turn down your right-wing radio......seriously.
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What I said is fact the gays want to hide it. We will get gay marriage when the kids being indoctrinated now by gays in the school can vote
 
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ptif219 said:
What I said is fact the gays want to hide it
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Its not even CLOSE to the facts. Its just the right-wing propoganda that you are regurgitating out because you feel that that's what you should do to be a real patriot soldier for Hannity.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, let's see some substantiation for this. Secondly, prove that gay is not normal. Also, if a church wants to do that, it is the church's business.



Who says YOU have to be silent?
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7% does not make it normal. School officials say that christians can not interfere or say anything against it
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
The problem with this argument is that gays are not trying to get to use the word marriage. They are trying to get all of the benefits that go along with being married. I look at the GM debate in a very pragmatic way. They could call gay marriage "oyster" for all I care. If the benefits are the same, GM has won. Staying mired in who gets to use the term marriage detracts from the real issue. Look at this thread. Perfect example of that. "We want to use the word marriage", "No, you can't". Rinse, repeat. And guess what? While this is happening, gay couples don't get the benefits. The problem with the pro-GM movement is that they look at things in a very black and white way rather than a shade of gray incremental assault. This along with focusing on discrimination rather than family is why they constantly lose.
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I disagree. While this is happening, gay lovers are gaining equal civil rights and proceeding down the path to the day when there will be equality under the law. I believe this outcome to be inevitable, but I also believe it will take time.

You've already acknowledged that you judge the word 'marriage' to be irrelevant. It seems easy to acknowledge that other people of reason and good intention may come to another judgement.

I believe the precedent set under the law that separate can never be equal, will in the end, prevail.
 
disneydude said:
Unfortunately no. I would love Obama to put a real liberal on the court. It isn't going to happen. Obama is a moderate. We knew that going into it. With the political climate in America today, it is unlikely a true liberal would be elected President. Obama's first choice was a moderate. I expect the next one will be as well.
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I can't believe you said that........Obama is the biggest Liberal by far to ever be president..........Your problem is he is not as far left as you, Cindy Sheehan , or Michael Moore.........
 
Navy Pride said:
I can't believe you said that........Obama is the biggest Liberal by far to ever be president..........Your problem is he is not as far left as you, Cindy Sheehan , or Michael Moore.........
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Nixon was more liberal than Obama.
 
disneydude said:
Oh please.....seriously....where do you get your information? Its too obvious that you listen to way too much right-wing propoganda.

Look at her voting record. She is HARDLY a liberal. I wish she were...but she is extremely moderate. My only hope is that with a lifetime appointment, maybe there is a liberal side of her that will come out...but based on her history...I doubt it.
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Not liberal but moderate. That is code word for a liberal that is not liberal enough for the far left.
 
jackalope said:
I disagree. While this is happening, gay lovers are gaining equal civil rights and proceeding down the path to the day when there will be equality under the law. I believe this outcome to be inevitable, but I also believe it will take time.

You've already acknowledged that you judge the word 'marriage' to be irrelevant. It seems easy to acknowledge that other people of reason and good intention may come to another judgement.

I believe the precedent set under the law that separate can never be equal, will in the end, prevail.
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Well we're going to have to disagree on this one. I'd rather see gay couples get all of the benefits of marriage rather than not because they spend so much time fighting over a word. I agree that it is idiotic on BOTH sides, but by bypassing this issue, it is far easier to achieve the ultimate goal. Look at NJ.
 
Navy Pride said:
I can't believe you said that........Obama is the biggest Liberal by far to ever be president..........Your problem is he is not as far left as you, Cindy Sheehan , or Michael Moore.........
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Oh please...Navy....not even close. Bill Clinton was more liberal than Obama...and Clinton wasn't even close to being liberal.

Hilary was more "liberal" than Obama....and Hilary was no liberal.

You guys that are so ultra right-wing think right-leaning moderates are "liberal"....you toss the word around so much that it really has no meaning. We've all seen what you refer to as liberal.....(similar to what you refer to as Huge.... }:doh
 
disneydude said:
Its not even CLOSE to the facts. Its just the right-wing propoganda that you are regurgitating out because you feel that that's what you should do to be a real patriot soldier for Hannity.
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I don't even like Hannity
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Firstly, let's see some substantiation for this. Secondly, prove that gay is not normal. Also, if a church wants to do that, it is the church's business.



Who says YOU have to be silent?
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You know, I doubt there has ever been a time when homosexuality didn't exist. So, in that respect, it's as normal as rain.

But so is being left-handed, having red hair, double-jointed people, albinos, and all sorts of other particular human traits that are out of the mainstream of the "norm."

Normal as rain.
 
ptif219 said:
Not liberal but moderate. That is code word for a liberal that is not liberal enough for the far left.
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Seriously, Dude.....have you looked at her voting record? Perhaps you should, rather than relying on what Hannity and Beck tell you. You might learn something about what a "moderate" and a "liberal" are if you actually did a little reading on her record.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You have just defined the word "average". Tell us why it is not NORMAL.
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7% is not average it is a very small minority and not the normal for the vast majority. So it is not normal for this country it is the rarity.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Well we're going to have to disagree on this one. I'd rather see gay couples get all of the benefits of marriage rather than not because they spend so much time fighting over a word. I agree that it is idiotic on BOTH sides, but by bypassing this issue, it is far easier to achieve the ultimate goal. Look at NJ.
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Indeed, look at NJ. They have all the benefits, as you said. So, continuing to fight for equality did not deprive them of gaining some relief under the law. The gay community was able to achieve much in that regard, and at the same time was not prevented from continuing with the cause.

NJ seems to give lie to your argument that nothing is accomplished while fighting for full marriage rights.
 
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