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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    My life is not run by polls.........Since Mass is very Roman Catholic as I am I would think that the people of that state would shoot down gay marriage as would every person in my church would........
    Since you are Roman Catholic Navy....you must be against Capital Punishment, right? Or are you one of those "Cafeteria Catholics"?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You still have not shown all these laws.

    Outside of the military it has been pretty much erased.

    Want to try again?
    I have presented two examples that clearly show gender-based discrimination.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I wonder if you have ever read the Declaration of Independence........
    Reading and comprehending are two different things....as you consistently show here Navy....

    By the way...have you ever taken five minutes to study equal protection analysis to see why you are constantly wrong in your posts here?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I have presented two examples that clearly show gender-based discrimination.
    One of them is, one is not.

    That is not "allot" of gender discrimination laws. You said it, not me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post


    I don't know what point they are speaking from but alot believe that gay marriage degrades straight marriage and degrades society .that is their opinion as it is yours........
    Many of the same people felt (and probably still do) that inter-racial marriage degraded homogenous marriage and degrades society.

    Does that make their opinion valid?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Are you?
    Yes, I actually know what I am talking about. You obviously don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Now explain how it is not "based on the bible" but IS based "based on reason dating back farther than the bible."

    For starters, here are the six principals the Constitution is based on...

    Popular Sovereignty,
    Limited Government,
    Separation of Powers,
    Checks and Balances,
    Judicial Review,
    Federalism

    Nothing biblical there, but most of those can be traced back much farther than the Bible in one civilization or another.

    "Aristotle and other ancient texts may seem irrelevant to modern-day issues such as gun control, but as Emory Law professor David Bederman argues in his new book, "The Classical Foundations of the American Constitution," classical Greek and Roman thinkers had a profound effect on the framers of the document -- and on our courts' interpretation of it today." - Emory University | Atlanta, GA | U.S. Constitution Based on Ancient Writings, Says Emory's Bederman

    "Several ideas in the Constitution were new, and a large number were drawn from the literature of Republicanism in the United States, the experiences of the 13 states, and the British experience with mixed government. The most important influence from the European continent was from Montesquieu, who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny. (This in itself reflects the influence of Polybius's 2nd century BC treatise on the checks and balances of the constitution of the Roman Republic.) British political philosopher John Locke was a major influence, and the due process clause of the Constitution was partly based on common law stretching back to Magna Carta (1215).[10]

    The United States Bill of Rights consists of the ten amendments added to the Constitution in 1791, as supporters of the constitution had promised critics during the debates of 1788.[15] The English Bill of Rights (1689) was an inspiration for the American Bill of Rights. Both require jury trials, contain a right to keep and bear arms, prohibit excessive bail and forbid "cruel and unusual punishments." Many liberties protected by state constitutions and the Virginia Declaration of Rights were incorporated into the Bill of Rights.
    " - [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution]United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    The Constitution is built on the concept of "rule of the people," or society--that each person has the right to affect the laws. Please point out how this is reflected in the Bible? Or how this is influenced by the Bible?

    You mite want to check out this reading list as well...

    Classical Influences on US Constitution

    Any more questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    When did you take this position, Jerry?




    A point of theory Tucker and I had a while back....

    If marriage is about raising children, then any couple raising children should have access to it (per the 14th amendment), and couples without children should not. This would be regardless of the couple's composition; be it gays, related, mixed race, existing marital status, etc.

    I would like to point out that NJ was trying to change the purpose and definition of marriage away from the raising of children and to just any couple for the sake of that couple remaining intact.

    Absent children, the state has no compelling interest in your relationships. NJ came 6 votes away from putting Big-Bro in your bedroom when Big-Bro did not have a compelling interest to do so.

    ***
    When gays argue for marriage due to the children they rais, yet would not afford those same rights to other couples also raising children, they trip my trap. Their hyperbole can not repel logic of this magnitude!!
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-09-10 at 10:20 PM.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I guess I don't see it that way. I can understand the frustration of not being able to use the word "marriage", but since, as far as I know, all of the benefits of being "married" are afforded those who have civil unions, I don't see this as a defeat or setback. Just how I see it though.
    Exactly --- however I'm sure there will be continued legal fights over gay couples wanting to use the word "marraige". This is what I've thought all the time - it's only half about the actual benefits afforded the partners, it's the want to be equal to heterosexual couples in all/every way including terminology and language.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I also think it's fair to say that there is no valid research that disputes the research that demonstrates what I have said.
    Actually, that's not true.

    You claimed earlier that "there is no correlation between children of same sex couple being more likely to become gay" - there indeed has been some work that disputes that. See for example: Stacey, J. & Biblarz, T.J. (2001). (How) does the sexual orientation of parents matter? American Sociological Review, 66, 159-183.
    http://www.soc.iastate.edu/soc522a/P...ngs/Stacey.pdf

    These are pro-gay marriage authors who (in reviewing existing research) conclude that evidence exists for at least a small positive correlation between parental sexual orientation and that of their children.

    Other researchers have also pointed to articles that claim "no difference" in their abstracts, but apparent differences in the data.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    This is all an attempt to finally expose the modern gay marriage movement for what it really is about: the validation of an identity.

    Marriage is not about validating identities.

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