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New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

Navy Pride said:
Imagine how confused a kid would be growing up with two fathers or mothers........
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Not confused at all. Not only do studies demonstrate this, but I've worked with many. Zero problems around it. Sorry NP, but you are absolutely wrong about this.
 
Navy Pride said:
You can post all those biased studies if you want but it only makes common sense that a child with a father and mother make better parents then a child with two fathers.....A faher or mother have a role in raising a child that is missing when they have 2 same sex parents..........
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Your "common sense" doesn't stand up to substantiation. My facts trump your sense, so you lose on this.
 
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texmaster said:
Too bad it didn't debunk anything.

Still relying on psychological profiles from questionnaires? Shabby, very shabby.
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Too bad you are still wrong about this and still don't know the difference between research and assessment.
 
Jerry said:
Domestic Partnership establishes every one of those rights which a state controls.
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This is my point... and I know it is yours too. Because of this, this issue is not about rights.
 
CriticalThought said:
Actually, you are wrong. Same sex marriage can be approved under the grounds that a strong evidence base shows that it is beneficial to both partcipants and that same sex couples can raise children just as well as different sex couples. Can you provide such an evidence base for polygamous families? Incestuous couples? People who want to have sex with animals or children? I don't think so.
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I could evidence that for polygamy, but as it's a bit of a tangent I'll wait until there's a genuine polygamy 'marriage news event to argue it in earnest.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is my point... and I know it is yours too. Because of this, this issue is not about rights.
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What frustrates me the most about this topic is how easily it can be won, yet pro-gm refuse.

Just make gay marriage about the family, add water and it's ready to serve.
 
Jerry said:
What frustrates me the most about this topic is how easily it can be won, yet pro-gm refuse.

Just make gay marriage about the family, add water and it's ready to serve.
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I know. You and I have discussed this and said this same thing for a couple of years now... and we do not necessarily agree on a lot, politically.

Make the issue about rights and discrimination and it's a loser of an argument; heck, I'm pro-GM and I could easily take apart a rights/discrimination pro-GM position.

Make the issue about family, and not only is it a winner, but unless you argue that marriage should be out of government altogether, it is an undefeatable argument. The mainstream pro-GM movement just doesn't get this. Why, I don't know.
 
Redress said:
Common sense once told us that left handed people where villains. Common sense is one of those meaningless terms in discussions like this. Now, got any facts to back up your claim?
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Maybe it taught you that but it did not me......that is ridiculous...........No one would believe that.....

Are you really saying that a father or a mother depending on the situation brings nothing to the table when raising a child..........are you really saying that? a yes or a no will suffice.......
 
Jerry said:
I could evidence that for polygamy, but as it's a bit of a tangent I'll wait until there's a genuine polygamy 'marriage news event to argue it in earnest.
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I might add there is already a polygamy group in Utah watching the gay marriage very closely and if God forbid gay marriage was ever approved by the equal protection clause they are ready to throw their hat in the ring........
 
Navy Pride said:
Maybe it taught you that but it did not me......that is ridiculous...........No one would believe that.....

Are you really saying that a father or a mother depending on the situation brings nothing to the table when raising a child..........are you really saying that? a yes or a no will suffice.......
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No, he's not saying that. He's saying... as I am with lots of research and data to back me, that a two parent household, regardless of whether it is same-sex or opposite-sex is the best household to in which to rear a child, and that same sex couples do as well rearing children as opposite sex couples. I've been saying this for years, NP, I have lots of data to support it, and have witnessed it, too.
 
Navy Pride said:
I might add there is already a polygamy group in Utah watching the gay marriage very closely and if God forbid gay marriage was ever approved by the equal protection clause they are ready to throw their hat in the ring........
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And they will fail. Polygamy does not benefit those involved in a way that benefits society or the government. Gay marriage does. That's the difference.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And they will fail. Polygamy does not benefit those involved in a way that benefits society or the government. Gay marriage does. That's the difference.
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That makes to much sense for the senseless to understand.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, he's not saying that. He's saying... as I am with lots of research and data to back me, that a two parent household, regardless of whether it is same-sex or opposite-sex is the best household to in which to rear a child, and that same sex couples do as well rearing children as opposite sex couples. I've been saying this for years, NP, I have lots of data to support it, and have witnessed it, too.
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And I am still saying a child has it best chance for success with 2 parents of the opposite sex......I believe its a no brainer...For example two men could never replace the nuchering (Not sure of the spelling) a mother can bring...No study can ever change my mind on that issue.........
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And they will fail. Polygamy does not benefit those involved in a way that benefits society or the government. Gay marriage does. That's the difference.
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a lot of people will say gays don't either.......Regardless if gays use the EPC then Polygamysts can use the same clause...
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And they will fail. Polygamy does not benefit those involved in a way that benefits society or the government. Gay marriage does. That's the difference.
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I might add that is your opinion...There are a lot of people out there that might disagree with you...

I will give you another example............you have 2 sisters living together who would love to have the benefits that marriage provides..........This is a non sexual relationship.............they both are straight........If gays can marry under the 14th amendment equal protection law why can't they?
 
Navy Pride said:
women in the military in combat............

women on submarines...........
You want more?
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That is not discrimination, it is the military.

I am talking about in civilian life.
 
Blackdog said:
That is not discrimination, it is the military.

I am talking about in civilian life.
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Its discrimination against a woman in the military....what the **** is wrong with you?
 
Navy Pride said:
And I am still saying a child has it best chance for success with 2 parents of the opposite sex......I believe its a no brainer...For example two men could never replace the nuchering (Not sure of the spelling) a mother can bring...No study can ever change my mind on that issue.........
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Then you are disagreeing with evidence, NP. Fact is that children in same-sex households DO have the same chances for success as those in opposite-sex households. I understand that when I debate this issue, there will be some who will not accept the facts of this issue no matter what is provided.
 
Navy Pride said:
a lot of people will say gays don't either.......Regardless if gays use the EPC then Polygamysts can use the same clause...
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People can say that, but they would be wrong. Evidence demonstrates that.
 
Navy Pride said:
Its discrimination against a woman in the military....what the **** is wrong with you?
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No it's not. I HAVE to go into combat because I am a male. It is equal across the board, so no discrimination.

The military is different from anything else and has different rules.

Now again I ask were in civilian life is this gender discrimination?
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
Then you are disagreeing with evidence, NP. Fact is that children in same-sex households DO have the same chances for success as those in opposite-sex households. I understand that when I debate this issue, there will be some who will not accept the facts of this issue no matter what is provided.
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CC your a reasonable man............don't you think a mother can bring something in a marriage that two fathers can't........I don't care what some survey says and I use the words common sense again........
 
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