Page 172 of 184 FirstFirst ... 72122162170171172173174182 ... LastLast
Results 1,711 to 1,720 of 1834

Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #1711
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    NP... are you really comparing animals to humans? Well, then I suppose you will agree that since homosexuality is quite normal in animals, then it would be normal for humans too, right?
    No comparison at all.....its just and example how lions do it with their young and Polygamysts could do it the same way.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  2. #1712
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    No comparison at all.....its just and example how lions do it with their young and Polygamysts could do it the same way.........
    So, to be consistent, you are saying that human behavior and animal behavior are equivalent. If you are NOT saying this, then your point on lions and polygamy is irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #1713
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So, to be consistent, you are saying that human behavior and animal behavior are equivalent. If you are NOT saying this, then your point on lions and polygamy is irrelevant.
    No not at all.......I am just saying how Lions do it and FOR THE SAKE OF argument I believe a man that married 2 women could leave the kids with them when he went to work and they would have to mothers to take care of them...what is wrong with that?if as yousay its beneficial for children to have to fathers then I say with polygamysts its the same thing.........

    I personally don't want either class to be able to marry...I am consistent on the issue CC..You are not..........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  4. #1714
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    No not at all.......I am just saying how Lions do it and FOR THE SAKE OF argument I believe a man that married 2 women could leave the kids with them when he went to work and they would have to mothers to take care of them...what is wrong with that?if as yousay its beneficial for children to have to fathers then I say with polygamysts its the same thing.........
    NP, when I argue the benefits of children living with gay parents, I show proof. You have shown none in regards to polygamy. Now I understand that showing proof is not something that you do regularly, but unless you show some, your point is irrelevant.

    I personally don't want either class to be able to marry...I am consistent on the issue CC..You are not..........
    No, I am being completely consistent, it is YOU that is not. I base my beliefs on information. You base your beliefs on your personal belief system/morals. Mine has credibility. Yours is a value judgment. If you were being consistent, you would agree with me that children living with gay couples do as well as those living with straight couples. But instead you refute this information with no information of your own... just your personal belief system. That is why your position is inconsistent.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #1715
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Oh, stop the overdramatic hyperbole. I have no hate nor bigotry of polygamy. I have data and information that demonstrates that polygamy is not equal to straight or gay marriage, does not yield the same benefits, and should therefore NOT be sanctioned by the government. That is the extent of my argument.
    I have data supporting the contention that a homosexual union is detrimental to children. Your point is?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Firstly, that's not how it works in RL. Secondly, when I use those words that you just used (yes, I am aware of what you are trying to do, and you are failing at it miserably) I have proof of this, and I am correct. In your case, you do not.
    Ah, so now it's I'm justing over emotional hyperbole where as you, the calm voice of reason are correct in every way.

    "If polygamy were legal, there would be more stable families, fewer single mothers and less welfare, says 'Poppa,' who lives in the Pacific Northwest with 'Momma,' his wife of 34 years, and 'Mom,' a single mother who joined them in 'marriage' five years ago.

    "Contrary to stereotypes, Poppa says, his family is self-sufficient and active in their community. All the adults work and share in household duties and the care of six children. 'We pool our money and our resources and whenever one [adult] has to take off, another will watch the kids,' he says.

    "Momma says she welcomed Mom into the family because she felt compassion for the 37-year-old single mother and knew 'my husband could take care of both of us.'

    "'He's always had more love than I could absorb,' Momma says. Good polygamous men, she adds, 'are not trying to create a collection [of wives]. They're trying to make sure this [single] woman has a support mechanism for her and her children.'"

    In another quote with the same family, Wetzstein's article reported "Poppa" saying, "Polygamy is family. It's us. It's a unity and identity of a family group. ... It is the ultrafamily."

    Wetzstein also cited some quotes from the second family, who similarly involve a single mom and children joining an existing family. "'The only difference between us and any other normal American family... -- it's all the same, except it's just a husband and a wife and a wife,' says the second 'Poppa'...

    "'We're extremely pro-family, we're extremely pro-children,' says Momma, who is 36 and joined Poppa, 29, and 'Mamasita,' 28, at their request six years ago.

    "They say that theirs is a harmonious, loving home -- 'we're sensitive to each other,' Mamasita says -- and having another adult in the house has allowed both women to share child care, go to college and get good jobs."

    Clearly, those (non-Mormon) Christian "ultrafamilies" succinctly explained how their form of consenting-adult polygamous families had afforded them better opportunities and life improvements - which they would not otherwise have been able to obtain individually.
    Pro-Polygamy.com - A 'Conservative' Shows Her Liberalism, Opposing Polygamy Rights

    YOU, are arrogantly proclaiming that Polygamy is detrimental because you know that Polygamy is the next logical step in the "evolution" of Marriage once the homosexual barrier is gone. You know it's gonna happen, but that hurts your political stance, and you are attacking full bore on me for exposing this truth.

    I know your game CC, you might impress people with your arrogant tone, but I see right through you.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #1716
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    NP, when I argue the benefits of children living with gay parents, I show proof. You have shown none in regards to polygamy. Now I understand that showing proof is not something that you do regularly, but unless you show some, your point is irrelevant.



    No, I am being completely consistent, it is YOU that is not. I base my beliefs on information. You base your beliefs on your personal belief system/morals. Mine has credibility. Yours is a value judgment. If you were being consistent, you would agree with me that children living with gay couples do as well as those living with straight couples. But instead you refute this information with no information of your own... just your personal belief system. That is why your position is inconsistent.

    I guess we are at and impass because you won't give and neither will I..........

    If you don't see the inconsistency in your stand of being against polygamysts to marry and being for gays and mine being against both there is not much to say except I believe my stand is the consistent one.........

    I can never believe in my heart of hearts that all things being equal any man can take the place of a good mother or any woman can take the place of a good father....sure there are exceptions to every rule.there are bad fathers and mothers and bad gay parents but like I said all things being equal a father does not have the necessary skills to take the place of a mother and vice versa.........There are certain attributes that both bring to the table that can not be substituted......

    I am not sure it has much to do with my morals either.....I don't care how many studies you cite to me its just common sense...........

    Sorry my friend that is just the way I feel..........Going to bed now..Going to play 18 holes of golf tommorow if the weather holds..........

    take care............

    PS: You better believe that the polygamysts are watching the gay marriage issue very closely and if gay marriage ever does happen they will be at the trough too.................The bucket of worms it would open would be incredible............
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 01-31-10 at 02:56 AM.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #1717
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have data supporting the contention that a homosexual union is detrimental to children. Your point is?
    Show it. I'll take a look at it.



    Ah, so now it's I'm justing over emotional hyperbole where as you, the calm voice of reason are correct in every way.
    Yeah, you are. And yeah, I'm right, Glad to see you admit that.

    Pro-Polygamy.com - A 'Conservative' Shows Her Liberalism, Opposing Polygamy Rights

    YOU, are arrogantly proclaiming that Polygamy is detrimental because you know that Polygamy is the next logical step in the "evolution" of Marriage once the homosexual barrier is gone. You know it's gonna happen, but that hurts your political stance, and you are attacking full bore on me for exposing this truth.

    I know your game CC, you might impress people with your arrogant tone, but I see right through you.
    No, MrV, it won't happen, and your attempts to attack on this will easily fail. My arrogance comes from my confidence in the information that proves me correct, both evidentiary and logically.

    And I know your game, MrV. You are attempting to divert things because you have a losing position. It's OK. It won't deter me in the least.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1718
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    I found one of the two posts that I use to dispel the foolish polygamy slippery slope. Here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Please show some evidence that polygamous marriage rears children as healthy and able to function as children of hetero- and homosexual marriage. There is plenty of data on both of those. I do not see why the government should support something unless there is some data showing it is helpful.

    Also, child-rearing is not the only reason that the government sanctions marriage, though it is the most prominent. Family stability and social stability are also important components. This is where polygamy falls short.

    But, you see, this entire, "if we allow homosexual marriage, polygamy is next" argument is extraordinarily weak, considering that the similarities between the two do not exist. Allow me to explain from both an individual and a societal standpoint. And Jerry. This may be the post you have been waiting for.

    First. let us take a look at the difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals. The striking difference is obvious. Homosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the same sex, whereas heterosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the opposite sex. Why would a heterosexual woman want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Why would a homosexual man want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Clearly, from an individual standpoint, this is a, if not the main reason for one wanting to marry a specific other. Love, attraction, emotion. Now, this does not justify gay marriage being validated, and, in fact is a weak argument that I never make. Love, attraction, and emotion does not benefit the state, which is why marriage exists. However, polygamy does not fit well in the criteria that I have identified. There is no polygamous sexual orientation. Polygamy is, typically, a heterosexual orientation, covered already. However, being that there is no polygamous sexual orientation, using this, a mainstay of the individual reason for marriage, will not work or apply. Therefore, polygamy from an individual standpoint, does not meet the same criteria for marriage as do homosexuals or heterosexuals. Lack of orientation.

    Now, we move into the societal realm. Government supports marriage for a few reasons. The productive rearing of children is most important. Creating a stable family life is also key: it adds to the positive potential for healthy children, but it also creates healthy adults. There is plenty of evidence to support the theory that those who live in a healthy, stable, committed relationship, are happier, healthier, and are more productive members of society. These are all things that benefit the state. Research shows that, regardless of sexual orientation, gay or straight, folks who live in these kinds of committed relationships, do better, and rear children better, than those who do not. This is regardless of sexual orientation. This is the second piece of the argument that will, eventually win the day for gay marriage. Polygamy does not offer the same benefits. And the answer to "why" is simple, and is psychological in nature. Jealousy, rivalry, and inconsistency. Just like my argument that psychology cannot be separated from economics, hence, because of greed, pure forms of both socialism and libertarianism are destined to be complete failures, neither can human psychology be separated from this issue. What is the number one cause of divorce? Adultery. Why? Jealousy and rivalry. In a multi-partner marriage, it would be impossible for their not to be some sort of hierarchy, and even if this is agreed upon, one cannot eliminate one's emotions. With this type of emotional instability at the familial structure's core, a healthy, committed relationship, similar to that of a single partner marriage, could not be obtained. Further, the inconsistency in caretaking responsibilities and in child rearing responsibilities, compounded by the hierarchies and rivalries will harm the children, affecting their functioning. We already see some of this in divorced families, where inconsistent rules, non-existent co-parenting, and rivalries, negatively affect children.

    Lastly, though there is plenty of research that supports both heterosexual and homosexual unions as being beneficial, there is none that supports polygamy.

    All of this shows how there is not correlation nor slippery slope from homosexual to polygamous marriage. Polygamy, for the reasons I identified, is not only a very different animal than homosexual marriage, but has none of the similar benefits to the state that the government currently sees marriage as.

    Polygamy as a reaction to homosexual marriage is a smokescreen and an invalid comparison.
    Note the logic, here. There's more, but I must log off for a while.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #1719
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I guess we are at and impass because you won't give and neither will I..........
    Always been this way on this issue between us, NP.

    If you don't see the inconsistency in your stand of being against polygamysts to marry and being for gays and mine being against both there is not much to say except I believe my stand is the consistent one.........
    You can believe that, but you'd be wrong.

    I can never believe in my heart of hearts that all things being equal any man can take the place of a good mother or any woman can take the place of a good father....sure there are exceptions to every rule.there are bad fathers and mothers and bad gay parents but like I said all things being equal a father does not have the necessary skills to take the place of a mother and vice versa.........There are certain attributes that both bring to the table that can not be substituted......

    I am not sure it has much to do with my morals either.....I don't care how many studies you cite to me its just common sense...........
    NP, I always look for proof and logic in every argument. In this one, both are on my side.

    Sorry my friend that is just the way I feel..........Going to bed now..Going to play 18 holes of golf tommorow if th weather holds..........

    take care............
    Enjoy your golf game... hope the weather is nice and you play well.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #1720
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,133

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have data supporting the contention that a homosexual union is detrimental to children. Your point is?
    I'll put down money right now that he posts single parent statistics. Any takers?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •