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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #1621
    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I never made an appeal to nature argument in the first place.
    You're now looking like a 4th grader. Lying and crying.

    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I also think that someone needs to identify what a "life-long partner" means. Seems to me that some folks are identifying this in a quantitative way. I think it is more of a qualitative thing. For example, if someone is married to someone for 30 years, more of a marriage of convenience than anything else, both get divorced, and one marries someone they truly love and want to spend the rest of their life with... and a year later they die in a car accident, which of their partners was their "life-long partner"? I would say the latter, not the former.

    Time is not nearly as relevant to this issue as quality is. The search for this can continue even after the appearance that it has been found.
    I would be willing to amend my statement on those grounds. The end result is still the same...human beings have a natural tendancy to partner with an expectation and desire for permanence.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    A note:

    Appeals to nature are fallacies because nature theoretically encompasses the totality of human existence. Rape and murder are natural behaviors, for instance. We can't legitimize them simply by recognizing this naturalness.

    Appeal to tradition (aka, tendencies) are fallacies because traditions may be based on mistaken beliefs.

    Something may be morally right, and also natural and a traditional, but its naturalness and tradition are incidental qualities so far as the ethics of the matter is concerned.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    1)I never made an appeal to nature argument in the first place.
    2)Marriage is, given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates and that being directly tied to the pursuit of one's happiness, the state makes concessions for us to choose one person to be irreplacable to us

    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    You're now looking like a 4th grader. Lying and crying.

    Please show me where I actually made an appeal to nature as my argument.

    And this go around, please try to do so without liberally editing the posts you use as reference. kthanx!!!

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    A note:

    Appeals to nature are fallacies because nature theoretically encompasses the totality of human existence. Rape and murder are natural behaviors, for instance. We can't legitimize them simply by recognizing this naturalness.

    Appeal to tradition (aka, tendencies) are fallacies because traditions may be based on mistaken beliefs.

    Something may be morally right, and also natural and a traditional, but its naturalness and tradition are incidental qualities so far as the ethics of the matter is concerned.
    So.....MG...yer saying...that Marriage isn't, given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates and that being directly tied to the pursuit of one's happiness, the state making concessions for us to choose one person to be irreplacable to us?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Please show me where I actually made an appeal to nature as my argument.
    Jallman>
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I would be willing to amend my statement on those grounds. The end result is still the same...human beings have a natural tendancy to partner with an expectation and desire for permanence.
    I agree. This is a tendency for people to search for, and sometimes they go through many relationships, some that may SEEM permanent until they find it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    A note:

    Appeals to nature are fallacies because nature theoretically encompasses the totality of human existence. Rape and murder are natural behaviors, for instance. We can't legitimize them simply by recognizing this naturalness.

    Appeal to tradition (aka, tendencies) are fallacies because traditions may be based on mistaken beliefs.

    Something may be morally right, and also natural and a traditional, but its naturalness and tradition are incidental qualities so far as the ethics of the matter is concerned.
    Thank you. And this leads to why Charles is, yet again, wrong in his assertions that an appeal to nature has been made.

    No one is arguing the legitimacy of marriage itself so no appeal to nature in describing the point of the marriage contract has been made.

    It's simply a statement of it being what it is, currently. Now if someone wants to argue whether marriage is legitimate or not, that's for another thread.

    Never once have I made an appeal to nature to argue the legitimacy of the inclusion of homosexuals in marriage.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Here's a question. If it is NOT a tendency for people to aim towards happiness, and to try to find happiness in relationships, why do people break up/get divorced? If happiness is not the goal, if they are not happy in the relationship, why not just remain for simplicity's sake?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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