Page 161 of 184 FirstFirst ... 61111151159160161162163171 ... LastLast
Results 1,601 to 1,610 of 1834

Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #1601
    Irrelevant Pissant

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    03-13-14 @ 07:55 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,194

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Actually, most people do. You should probably come up with statistics before you start down a Charlie Martel trip, too.
    There are nearly 93 million unmarried Americans over age 18, representing roughly 42% of the adult population. - U.S. Census Bureau. “America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2007.”
    There are more than 56 million American adults who have always been single, representing roughly 60% of the adult unmarried population. - U.S. Census Bureau. “America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2007.”
    50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.”
    Lets do some math here... Of the 58% who are married, half of them will end in divorce, leaving 29% of married couples who have chosen a life long partner.

    Of the 42% that are unmarried, 40% of them are already divorced, and of the remaining 25%, at least 20% will remain unmarried. The remaining 20% of the population will marry at some point, but half of them will get divorced, so the percent of people who choose a life long partner and stick with them will increase from 29% to 39%, still well below the 50%.

    Even if we were to suppose that the entire 5% of the population who remains unmarried were in life long gay domestic partnerships, it would only bring the number up to 44%.

    In conclusion, when it comes to a "natural tendency" for choosing lifelong partnerships, people FAIL. Humans are not a creature that mates for life in most cases. We like to mate for a few years, then get bored an move on.

  2. #1602
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Lets do some math here... Of the 58% who are married, half of them will end in divorce, leaving 29% of married couples who have chosen a life long partner.

    Of the 42% that are unmarried, 40% of them are already divorced, and of the remaining 25%, at least 20% will remain unmarried. The remaining 20% of the population will marry at some point, but half of them will get divorced, so the percent of people who choose a life long partner and stick with them will increase from 29% to 39%, still well below the 50%.

    Even if we were to suppose that the entire 5% of the population who remains unmarried were in life long gay domestic partnerships, it would only bring the number up to 44%.

    In conclusion, when it comes to a "natural tendency" for choosing lifelong partnerships, people FAIL. Humans are not a creature that mates for life in most cases. We like to mate for a few years, then get bored an move on.
    That in no way negates the expectation that most human beings have of partnering for life. It also doesn't take into account those partnered for life that simply have chosen not to get married.

    That's just a raw statistic concerning who is currently partnered AND already married.

    A 58% divorce rate also does not take into account that most of those will remarry. Your exercise in spinning statistics has failed.

  3. #1603
    Irrelevant Pissant

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    03-13-14 @ 07:55 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,194

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    That in no way negates the expectation that most human beings have of partnering for life.
    You moving the goal post on me? I said that most people don't choose a partner for life, I never said most people didn't delude themselves.

    It also doesn't take into account those partnered for life that simply have chosen not to get married.
    You are sooooo mistaken here. I have assumed that the ENTIRE 5% of the population that have chosen not to get married are in lifelong partnerships:

    Even if we were to suppose that the entire 5% of the population who remains unmarried were in life long gay domestic partnerships, it would only bring the number up to 44%.
    That's just a raw statistic concerning who is currently partnered AND already married.
    You asserted that most people are partnered to one person for life, and asked me for statistics. I provided them. If you would like to present statistics to back your own assertion, no one is stopping you.

    A 58% divorce rate also does not take into account that most of those will remarry.
    It doesn't matter to me how many temporary arrangements they enter into. People who don't stay with their professed "life partner" for life, are clearly lacking this "natural tendency" of which you speak.

    Your exercise in spinning statistics has failed.
    Its ok that you were wrong. It's no reflection on you as a person.

  4. #1604
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    You moving the goal post on me? I said that most people don't choose a partner for life, I never said most people didn't delude themselves.
    No, I said that there is a natural tendancy to partner for life and that the State makes concessions for that.

    You are sooooo mistaken here. I have assumed that the ENTIRE 5% of the population that have chosen not to get married are in lifelong partnerships:
    No, you assumed gay partnerships in that 5%. You never made any accounting for the straight couples that are partnered and never married. You simply misunderstood what I was saying.



    You asserted that most people are partnered to one person for life, and asked me for statistics. I provided them. If you would like to present statistics to back your own assertion, no one is stopping you.



    It doesn't matter to me how many temporary arrangements they enter into. People who don't stay with their professed "life partner" for life, are clearly lacking this "natural tendency" of which you speak.
    Statistics concerning failed attempts at partnering for life does not negate the tendancy human beings have to pursue life partnerships. Your statistics did nothing to diminish my point concerning the purpose of the marriage contract as it is instituted in our society. Now if you showed statistics indicating that a majority of people show no desire or tendancy toward pursuing lifelong partnerships, you may have had a point.

    The marriage contract makes an assertion of "for life". That so many people enter this contract with an assumption of "for life" only bolsters the assertion I made that human beings have a natural tendancy to partner for life, or for the sake of your tender sensibilities let's just say a natural desire to partner for life.

    Its ok that you were wrong. It's no reflection on you as a person.
    And it's ok that you failed to disprove my assertion or actually prove me to be wrong. It's no reflection on you as a person just on your ability to debate with relevance.

  5. #1605
    User phildozer9121's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    09-18-15 @ 11:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    147

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    In conclusion, when it comes to a "natural tendency" for choosing lifelong partnerships, people FAIL. Humans are not a creature that mates for life in most cases. We like to mate for a few years, then get bored an move on.
    But everyone should have the right to a lifelong partnership
    Haha. Panty Hawk. I would watch that show.

  6. #1606
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by phildozer9121 View Post
    But everyone should have the right to a lifelong partnership
    And more importantly, life long partnerships failing is not an indicator of whether life long partnerships are a natural tendancy for human beings to pursue.

    Check this out from Chemistry.com's statistics and survey polling.

    In reading through the various questions, overwhelmingly the polls show that lifelong commitment is the pursuit of most adults when it comes to their relationships.

    Anyone who debates otherwise is just baiting to move the debate to an irrelevant quagmire.

    It is of note though that whether it is "natural" or not is also irrelevant to determining whether it is right or wrong. Appeal to nature is still a fallacy.
    Last edited by jallman; 01-28-10 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #1607
    Irrelevant Pissant

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    03-13-14 @ 07:55 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,194

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    No, I said that there is a natural tendancy to partner for life and that the State makes concessions for that.
    And I said I thought that was funny, because most people don't partner for life, and you said that actually most people do. You have yet to back that up.

    No, you assumed gay partnerships in that 5%. You never made any accounting for the straight couples that are partnered and never married. You simply misunderstood what I was saying.
    What you are saying doesn't make any sense. Of the US population, there is about 5% that never get married. I have assumed (and it is a very generous assumption) that the entire 5% that don't get married are in lifelong partnerships. What does it matter whether they are gay or straight? If you like, we could suppose that 2% of the population are gays in lifelong relationships who choose never to get married, and that 3% are straights in lifelong relationships who choose not to get married. Or we could suppose that 1% are gay lifelong partners and 4% are straight lifelong partners.

    It doesn't affect the conclusion at all. We are assuming that the entire demographic of people who choose never to marry are in lifelong relationships, regardless of their orientation.

    Statistics concerning failed attempts at partnering for life does not negate the tendancy human beings have to pursue life partnerships. Your statistics did nothing to diminish my point concerning the purpose of the marriage contract as it is instituted in our society. Now if you showed statistics indicating that a majority of people show no desire or tendancy toward pursuing lifelong partnerships, you may have had a point.
    Maybe you could point out where you used the word "pursue" in your original post.

    The marriage contract makes an assertion of "for life". That so many people enter this contract with an assumption of "for life" only bolsters the assertion I made that human beings have a natural tendancy to partner for life, or for the sake of your tender sensibilities let's just say a natural desire to partner for life.
    I only said that most people don't partner for life. I think most people have a natural desire to own a Ducati. The Government should make concessions for that.

    And it's ok that you failed to disprove my assertion or actually prove me to be wrong. It's no reflection on you as a person just on your ability to debate with relevance.
    I was quite successful in disproving your assertion. That is why you had to amend your assertion. I accept your amended assertion that people have a desire to partner for life.

    Carry on.

  8. #1608
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    And I said I thought that was funny, because most people don't partner for life, and you said that actually most people do. You have yet to back that up.


    What you are saying doesn't make any sense. Of the US population, there is about 5% that never get married. I have assumed (and it is a very generous assumption) that the entire 5% that don't get married are in lifelong partnerships. What does it matter whether they are gay or straight? If you like, we could suppose that 2% of the population are gays in lifelong relationships who choose never to get married, and that 3% are straights in lifelong relationships who choose not to get married. Or we could suppose that 1% are gay lifelong partners and 4% are straight lifelong partners.

    It doesn't affect the conclusion at all. We are assuming that the entire demographic of people who choose never to marry are in lifelong relationships, regardless of their orientation.



    Maybe you could point out where you used the word "pursue" in your original post.



    I only said that most people don't partner for life. I think most people have a natural desire to own a Ducati. The Government should make concessions for that.



    I was quite successful in disproving your assertion. That is why you had to amend your assertion. I accept your amended assertion that people have a desire to partner for life.

    Carry on.
    And none of that disproves that it is a natural tendancy for human beings to enter into lifelong partnership. Attempting and failing does not negate the tendancy toward the pursuit.

    My assertion has not been amended at all and I stand by it until such a time as you can successfully disprove it.

    Carry on.

  9. #1609
    Irrelevant Pissant

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    03-13-14 @ 07:55 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,194

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    And more importantly, life long partnerships failing is not an indicator of whether life long partnerships are a natural tendancy for human beings to pursue.
    It is however an indicator of whether people actually choose to engage in lifelong partnerships.

    Here is the original quote copied and pasted from your post. If the word "pursue" is in there, feel free to point it out.

    Given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates

  10. #1610
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    It is however an indicator of whether people actually choose to engage in lifelong partnerships.

    Here is the original quote copied and pasted from your post. If the word "pursue" is in there, feel free to point it out.
    And nothing you have stated disproves that this is a choice for human beings. They choose lifelong mates. Whether they succeed or not in maintaining those relationships for life is another matter entirely.

    You are simply attempting semantic somersaults to create a separate point to argue for the convenience of arguing something you can actually win.

    At least you didn't sink as far as Charlie and truncate quotes and merge them with others to create a whole new sentence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •