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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Why are gay couples begging the government for the right to use the word marriage again? Why don't they just use it? Who's going to stop them?
    It isn't about using a word. Its about whether big government should be able to come in and tell you how you can and cannot marry.

    I do not believe that the Government has any place in legislating the most personal matters between consenting adults. Why anyone wants the government in our bedrooms has always surprised me, especially because those advocating for big government are usually those who CLAIM that they support a smaller government.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Ah, I was just going off of this post on the first page.



    If CC was mistaken here, then I retract my argument.

    Why are there 1138 rights being denied to me because of my choice to remain unmarried?

    What is so special about gay couples that they deserve to leave the ranks of us here in the oppressed class and join the ranks of the oppressors?
    I'm not going to disagree with you. But, the point of the marriage contract is that, given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates and that being directly tied to the pursuit of one's happiness, the state makes concessions for us to choose one person to be irreplacable to us. That being said, the state cannot say to one group that their choice of person is morally worthy while the other group's is not.

    It is about equality under the law and impartiality of the state.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I'm not going to disagree with you. But, the point of the marriage contract is that, given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates and that being directly tied to the pursuit of one's happiness, the state makes concessions for us to choose one person to be irreplacable to us. That being said, the state cannot say to one group that their choice of person is morally worthy while the other group's is not.

    It is about equality under the law and impartiality of the state.
    Amen...brother!
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Ah, I was just going off of this post on the first page.



    If CC was mistaken here, then I retract my argument.

    Why are there 1138 rights being denied to me because of my choice to remain unmarried?

    What is so special about gay couples that they deserve to leave the ranks of us here in the oppressed class and join the ranks of the oppressors?
    From a state standpoint, I believe that those in NJ who are in civil unions are afforded all the benefits that heterosexual marriages afford... though I might be wrong and there might be some that are NOT. However, jallman is correct, I believe and there are absences in federal benefits... which is why I completely reject a states' rights position on this. It needs to be a FEDERAL law.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    These are no small matters.
    No they're not. And you'd agree the Legislature is where you'd take these 'matters' for consideration?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I may be no one but I am talking about it.....You better believe that family members living together would love the benefits that marrried couples get simply by getting married........There would be other groups like two men and two women, or one women and three men............If gays were allowed to marry all kind of groups would come out of the woodwork.......
    Let 'em come. We can just allocate more taxes to cover their benefits also.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    However, jallman is correct, I believe and there are absences in federal benefits... which is why I completely reject a states' rights position on this. It needs to be a FEDERAL law.
    You're right. As long as DOMA is in play, marriage is NOT a states' rights issue ..it's a federal issue and needs to be settled on that level.

    The states' rights folks shot themselves in the foot by supporting DOMA.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I'm not going to disagree with you. But, the point of the marriage contract is that, given the natural tendancy of the human being to choose life-long mates and that being directly tied to the pursuit of one's happiness, the state makes concessions for us to choose one person to be irreplacable to us.
    And you're arguing earlier that marriage is like any other contract? What in the world!! You're trying to tell me.....or it turns out...sell me....that any other contract...given the natural tendencies for humans to enter contracts....and leading to "pursuit of one's happiness" is the equal to ANY other contract that requires two people to be responsible or some such nonsense. You've now jumped into what the "point" of the marriage contract is?

    The State even making "concessions for us to choose one person irreplaceable to us"............yeah....just like every other contract mentioned in example in this thread, huh?

    Point of a marriage contract, Sir? Based on a "natural tendency of humans".....Sir? Directly tied to our very happiness Sir.....is like any other contract.

    I debated in college, formal rules, tight lipped sort of stuff, actually chasing a chick and that's why I got into it. This right here....this mistake you just made defining marriage and thus making it unique and quite unlike any other contract...is called a colossal error on your part. You've just contradicted yourself Jallman.....big time. There isn't a contract on this earth in the manner in which YOU just described while you're pretending otherwise just days ago. For crying out loud, may I ask for a consistent argument to take on, this all over Left field back and forth contradictions are difficult.

    That being said, the state cannot say to one group that their choice of person is morally worthy while the other group's is not.
    Why not, you do it and use the state to implement.

    It is about equality under the law and impartiality of the state.
    We the People though....are that State....you seem to keep misunderstanding that.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    We the People though....are that State....you seem to keep misunderstanding that.
    So?! Don't forget, we the people are subject to the federal constitution first, state constitution second.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    The states' rights folks shot themselves in the foot by supporting DOMA.
    Why? It now permits states to not recognize other state's approvals of same sex marriage.

    Many states took an entirely different avenue and just rewrote their state constitutions, CR, this makes this shot in the foot argument hard to make. It is also states rights people that would like an attempt for a Constitutional Amendment. An attempt would be adequate, We the People then having an opportunity to speak. Many may not agree as their states already prohibit ssm. Many may not agree as they've passed ssm. The Constitutional measure proposed, the bar set in stone, let's see what the people think and move on.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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