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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Yes, just like it used to say "between one man and one woman of the same race."
    It didn't, but if it did, then the definition indeed changed. So why would you then use this to argue that it doesn't have to change to accommodate same-sex marriage?


    It will still be a marriage under all the same laws, but available to any couple and not just to same sex ones. Just like when it was changed to allow any couple and not just same race ones.
    It's still not the same argument. But even if it is, the exact same can be said for a marriage of more than two.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It didn't, but if it did, then the definition indeed changed. So why would you then use this to argue that it doesn't have to change to accommodate same-sex marriage?
    And here I thought I could give you another chance. But no ... (insert Reagan voice) there you go again.

    I never said that the definition of marriage won't change. In fact, I admitted it would, but only inasmuch as it did when it changed in those states that denied it to interracial couples.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It's still not the same argument. But even if it is, the exact same can be said for a marriage of more than two.
    And it could have been made when the law was changed to allow interracial marriage too.

    It's not going to happen. It didn't then, it won't now.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Check out the 14th amendment , equal protection clause you might learn something........Equal protection means all citizens and that includes peope who engage in polygamy as well as other classes of people defined by their sexuak preference.......
    Bring it on

    Once gay marriage is approved, polygamous marriages should be the next fight toward the ultimate goal of allowing all forms of consensual relationships to be designated as marriages if the parties so choose.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    And here I thought I could give you another chance. But no ... (insert Reagan voice) there you go again.
    This is what you always do whenever you get stuck. Does this work in court?


    I never said that the definition of marriage won't change. In fact, I admitted it would, but only inasmuch as it did when it changed in those states that denied it to interracial couples.
    Bull**** you didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    The key here is that the definition of marriage does not have to change really. The ONLY thing that changes is that you cannot deny something to a gay couple that is available to a straight couple.
    In order to include same-sex couples, you'd have to change the definition away from from "one man and one woman."

    And I argued exactly on those terms. You then changed the terms, and even included an historically inaccurate formulation to do it.



    And it could have been made when the law was changed to allow interracial marriage too.
    It wasn't. But it couldn't have been under the Loving holding, because neither the number nor the sex was ever in question there.


    It's not going to happen. It didn't then, it won't now.
    Because the argument wasn't the same.

    Look, you can say "it's not going to happen," but you don't know that it won't. And if it does, you've said nothing about same-sex marriage which would not also apply to polygamy.

    If you think you have, state your formulation in clear terms. Keeping in mind, of course, that you also said there is "no legal argument against gay marriage."

    If you can make a cogent, consistent legal argument which would not be open to application for polygamy, let's see it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Sigh. You quote me, and I said exactly what I said I had said, and still you argue that I said something different.

    100% of the time I have debated with you, you have built up a straw man, pretended I said something else you can disagree with, and argued against that.

    I have had this problem with no one else on this board.

    I'm through with you.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Sigh. You quote me, and I said exactly what I said I had said, and still you argue that I said something different.

    100% of the time I have debated with you, you have built up a straw man, pretended I said something else you can disagree with, and argued against that.

    I have had this problem with no one else on this board.

    I'm through with you.
    It's funny how you're always "through" with me -- though you never actually are -- exactly when the debate turns against you.

    Whether or not you have the goods -- or the cojones -- to rigorously debate what you say is entirely up to you, of course.

    Give the formulation I asked for, or simply admit you can't. This tantrum-throwing is irrelevant.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Amazing. Do you have a single court case that says that?
    Since the 14th amendment has not been tested there are none but if you allow gays to marry you open he flood gates..........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    It must be hell for you here in DP Groucho as compared to WS where all the members lean to the far left......You actually can have a debate in DP...
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Bring it on

    Once gay marriage is approved, polygamous marriages should be the next fight toward the ultimate goal of allowing all forms of consensual relationships to be designated as marriages if the parties so choose.
    Yes your right........sisters can marry brothers, sisters an marry sisters, brothers can marry brothers, fathers can marry sons, mothers can marry daughters, etc. all doing it for the benefits provided for married people.....they would be sexless marriages, incest not involved.......You will pay my income taxes needed to provide all the benefits for these marriages...Go for it..........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    It must be hell for you here in DP Groucho as compared to WS where all the members lean to the far left......You actually can have a debate in DP...
    Pesky thing, having people who disagree with you challenge what you say.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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