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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Bull. The first thing a religious person would want everyone to believe when it comes to a religious issue is that their religion has no bearing on what they believe. But feel free to make your non religious argument.
    Now you are just being flat dishonest. If a religious argument is never made, how can you claim religion plays a factor in the argument?
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    And what would be wrong with religious beliefs affecting votes in referendum or who we send to represent us?

    I do have the right to practice my religion as I see fit, yes?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    And what would be wrong with religious beliefs affecting votes in referendum or who we send to represent us?

    I do have the right to practice my religion as I see fit, yes?
    Absolutely, but only as long as it does not affect your morals I guess.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Polygamy is inherently degrading to society.
    That's what people used to say about interracial marriage.

    (I know the libbos were chomping at the bit to make this incredibly profound point, but I beat them to it.)

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That's what people used to say about interracial marriage.

    (I know the libbos were chomping at the bit to make this incredibly profound point, but I beat them to it.)
    There is a difference. There was no logic behind interracial marriage causing problems for society. There is for polygamy.

    (I know the cons where chomping at the bit to demonstrate this profound bit of logic, but I beat them to it).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    There is a difference. There was no logic behind interracial marriage causing problems for society. There is for polygamy.
    What possible harm to society comes from a woman deciding to take two husbands?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    What possible harm to society comes from a woman deciding to take two husbands?
    I made a very good post a while back outlining the reasons that polygamy would NOT be beneficial to society in the same ways as gay marriage and why government would not sanction it. I'm searching for it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I made a very good post a while back outlining the reasons that polygamy would NOT be beneficial to society in the same ways as gay marriage and why government would not sanction it. I'm searching for it.
    I hope it includes how your neighbor taking on another husband possibly affects your marriage. And..do you accept others may have a diferent logic on these matters?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I made a very good post a while back outlining the reasons that polygamy would NOT be beneficial to society in the same ways as gay marriage and why government would not sanction it. I'm searching for it.
    So . . . you base this not on the idea of fundamental human rights to make whatever social associations they see fit, but on studies which purport to show whether or not such associations are beneficial to society?

    New studies come along all the time which show old data to be faulty or at least in a different light. Anything you show might change. That's also true of "gay" marriage.

    Do you expect that if a future study (and I mean a sound, scientific one) comes along to show that "gay" marriage is actually detrimental, then it would be abolished again? Or, if it hasn't been firmly established, that its proponents would care? Do you really think the APA stamp of approval matters? Did it matter when homosexuality was considered by science to be a disorder?

    I guess the question is, is it a fundamental right or not? If it is, its "benefit" to society isn't particularly relevant.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So . . . you base this not on the idea of fundamental human rights to make whatever social associations they see fit, but on studies which purport to show whether or not such associations are beneficial to society?
    Absolutely. I reject the concept of "natural rights".

    New studies come along all the time which show old data to be faulty or at least in a different light. Anything you show might change. That's also true of "gay" marriage.
    This is true. That's why laws are changeable based on societal needs and knowledge that we gain. Our current laws reflect information that we have learned... not information we knew 200 years ago.

    Do you expect that if a future study (and I mean a sound, scientific one) comes along to show that "gay" marriage is actually detrimental, then it would be abolished again? Or, if it hasn't been firmly established, that its proponents would care? Do you really think the APA stamp of approval matters? Did it matter when homosexuality was considered by science to be a disorder?
    If a future study came along and found that gay marriage is actually detrimental, I would think there would be many who would use this information to abolish it. Depending on the level of detriment, I would be on their side. Things need to be weighed in all areas. And yes, I think the APA stamp of approval matters.

    I guess the question is, is it a fundamental right or not? If it is, its "benefit" to society isn't particularly relevant.
    As I said, I do not see anything as a fundamental right, which is why it's benefit to society is based on current knowledge, societal/individual needs, and is relevant based on what is discovered when the issue is studied.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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