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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Context is the problem. African Americans being denied marriage based on the color of their skin is immoral and was corrected, the majority of ethnic Americans today oppose same sex marriage and consider your attempt to make analogies to race out of context.
    The opinion of ethnic groups is irrelevant to the accuracy of a statement. Accuracy is not a popularity contest.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The opinion of ethnic groups is irrelevant to the accuracy of a statement.
    Too true, your accuracy wasn't questioned. Black and gay members of our society have similarly been looked down on and denied the right to do certain things.

    But, Navy's point was that the two situations are completely different, and your "similarities" had nothing to do with the situation. His statements are based on the fact that race nor skin color is comparable to sexual orientation. So, where your statement is accurate, it's not relevant.

    My point addressed the very relevant point in the discussion...pointing out that most black americans.....those who many observers feel as a group has experienced the most extreme of being looked down upon and denied rights..doesn't see it the same way. I believe it's relevant even if you don't, Navy as well considered it relevant.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Too true, your accuracy wasn't questioned. Black and gay members of our society have similarly been looked down on and denied the right to do certain things.

    But, Navy's point was that the two situations are completely different, and your "similarities" had nothing to do with the situation. His statements are based on the fact that race nor skin color is comparable to sexual orientation. So, where your statement is accurate, it's not relevant.

    My point addressed the very relevant point in the discussion...pointing out that most black americans.....those who many observers feel as a group has experienced the most extreme of being looked down upon and denied rights..doesn't see it the same way. I believe it's relevant even if you don't, Navy as well considered it relevant.
    So you agree there are similarities, but they are not any similarities?

    Race and skin color and sexual orientation are all things beyond some one's control. Hey look, they are comparable.

    Again, validity is not popularity.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you agree there are similarities, but they are not any similarities?
    I agree there are plenty of irrelevant similarities, I've been looked down upon for being a proud neo-con and been denied rights as far as this health care bill is concerned. Which is about as relevant as your looked down upon and denied rights claim.

    Race and skin color and sexual orientation are all things beyond some one's control. Hey look, they are comparable.
    But, our society defining marriage isn't beyond our control even though many would like it that way.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The same bigoted argument that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to include inter-racial marriage
    It wasn't. The definition of marriage did not change. To any extent that it did, was changed to exclude interracial marriage.

    But that didn't even happen. There were restrictions as to who could enter into it with whom, but the fundamental definition was the same either way.


    is the same bigoted argument that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to include gay marriage.
    It's not the same argument at all. It may well be a bigoted, wrong argument, but it's not the same argument.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are similarities. Both groups where looked down on and denied the right to do certain things by factors beyond their control.
    Again gays have the same right I do.........they can marry anyone of the opposite sex exactly as I can........They are trying to establish a soecial right for them......Why don't you inderstand that......Why don't you understand that if you allow gays to marry then you have to allow other groups as classes of people to have the same right..Maybe you have no problem with that but I do..............
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Why don't you understand that if you allow gays to marry then you have to allow other groups as classes of people to have the same right
    Slippery slope fallacy. Fail.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Nothing like taking something out of context. Note my comment was in response to a comment about there being no similarities...

    Hell you can say there are similarities between dogs and cats.......There is no question that you can tell a black person.......
    As far as a gay person unless they flaunt their sexuality you would not even know they were gay.......
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It wasn't. The definition of marriage did not change. To any extent that it did, was changed to exclude interracial marriage.

    But that didn't even happen. There were restrictions as to who could enter into it with whom, but the fundamental definition was the same either way.




    It's not the same argument at all. It may well be a bigoted, wrong argument, but it's not the same argument.
    Sure it was. Prior to changing the definition, marriage was defined as marriage between a man and a woman of the same race. That definition was changed.

    As you point out, the restrictions changed who could enter into it with whom.
    How is gay marriage any different than that?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry Navy...but it isn't. The same bigoted views that are applied to gays are similar to the same bigoted views that were applied to blacks.

    The same bigoted argument that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to include inter-racial marriage...is the same bigoted argument that the definition of marriage shouldn't be changed to include gay marriage.

    The same bigoted argument that the children of inter-racial couples would suffer is the same bigoted argument that the children of gay couples will suffer.

    People who seek to preserve discrimination use whatever arguments are at their disposal and all you have to do is look at the historical arguments used by bigots against inter-racial marriage and you see that they are the same that are being used today.

    People who fought inter-racial marriage felt that they were in the right and that god was on their side the same way that the anti-gay marriage folk feel that they are justified in their discrimination. There is no difference.
    You insult every black person in this country when you make that comparison.......If you want to make a comparison between gay and Polygamysts that would be fine because both groups are identified by a lifestyle.....There is no comparison between a black person's lifesyle and a gay lifestyl.....Black are born black,,,,,,,gays are not born that way...I usally don't put it that way but as long as you continue to make the comparison I will do it...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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