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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #1101
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am not denying anyone anything? How many times do I have to repeat that? Please point out where I have gay hostages tied up so they can't get married?

    I also support civil unions, so again by keeping marraige between 1 man and woman I am not denying anyone anything.
    Supporting policies against same sex marriage is not denying marriage for gay people? Oooooookay.

    Unfortunately most of our society does not consider 2 men a marraige. This is so much so a majority of state have written it into the Constitutions of the state.
    Argumentum ad populum

    So, it does not apply.
    Same sex marriage is recognized in 8 out of the 50 states and can be performed in 5.

    where did you come off with this repugnance thing? Please point out where I have said anything about sex in any way? I am talking about the life style as a whole.
    Define lifestyle.

    You are getting into things and accusing me of things that have little or nothing to do with my arguments or beliefs.
    I may be mixing you up a bit with K-1.

    Your tone is getting angry and abusive. You need to calm yourself down and understand not everyone agrees and live with it.
    I'm not angry in the least bit. Very disappointed that in this day and age there are still people who wish to deny civil rights to others based on little more than their personal beliefs and not on a reasonable argument. The Supreme Court has historically held marriage as a civil right and only now that gays want it is there any talk of how it is a "privilege" and a "sacred word". I can't see it for anything but what it is, another attack on gay rights by people who condemn them for who they are.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    K-1 and Blackdog are NOTHING alike.
    It is still easy when you are shifting between threads to get members and their arguments mixed up.

  3. #1103
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    With something called the Constitution of the United States, which is the law of the land and a particular 14th amendment to that document which includes something called the Equal Protection Clause which states that no state shall deny people equal protection under the law.
    If it were so simply a 14th Amendment issue, the matter could have been decided and disposed of long ago.

    The problem is, if a state defines marriage as that between one man and one woman, that applies equally to everyone in the state. Sure, a gay man can't marry a gay man, but two straight men can't marry each other, either -- or a straight man marrying a gay man, or whatever. The law does apply equally.

    The 14th Amendment argument is not a winner. A much better argument is free association.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It is still easy when you are shifting between threads to get members and their arguments mixed up.
    I suppose that's true. Especially if the threads are dealing with similar issues.
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Supporting policies against same sex marriage is not denying marriage for gay people? Oooooookay.
    Please explain if civil unions give all the same legal benefits of marraige, what is the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Argumentum ad populum
    Makes it no less a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Same sex marriage is recognized in 8 out of the 50 states and can be performed in 5.
    Same sex marraige has been outlawed by the Constitutions of 6 states and is illegal in the other 31.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Define lifestyle.
    lifestyle n

    1. a set of attitudes, habits, or possessions associated with a particular person or group


    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I may be mixing you up a bit with K-1.
    I can't help you with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm not angry in the least bit. Very disappointed that in this day and age there are still people who wish to deny civil rights to others based on little more than their personal beliefs and not on a reasonable argument.
    Again: I AM NOT DENYING ANYONE ANYTHING.

    My argument IS reasonable to many people. It is your opinion that it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The Supreme Court has historically held marriage as a civil right and only now that gays want it is there any talk of how it is a "privilege" and a "sacred word". I can't see it for anything but what it is, another attack on gay rights by people who condemn them for who they are.
    And that is well and fine, you are entitled to YOUR opinion.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-13-10 at 03:11 AM.
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If it were so simply a 14th Amendment issue, the matter could have been decided and disposed of long ago.

    The problem is, if a state defines marriage as that between one man and one woman, that applies equally to everyone in the state. Sure, a gay man can't marry a gay man, but two straight men can't marry each other, either -- or a straight man marrying a gay man, or whatever. The law does apply equally.

    The 14th Amendment argument is not a winner. A much better argument is free association.
    No, because the Court moves slowly. Just look to Loving v Virginia to see how wrong you are. It took the Court 99 years after passage of the 14th amendment to use it to strike down laws that prohibited interracial marriage. According to your logic, it should've happened years earlier. Try explaining that.

    So if a state defines marriage as that between one black man and one black woman, and one white man and one white woman; it applies equally to everyone in the state. Sure a black person couldn't marry a white person, but neither could a white person marry a black person; therefore no discrimination. Care to explain why the Court didn't buy that argument?

    The 14th will eventually be used to strike down all laws prohibiting gay marriage.

  7. #1107
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Please explain if civil unions give all the same legal benefits of marraige, what is the problem?
    The problem is, they don't. DOMA sees to that.

    Also, people aren't as willing to give civil unions to gay couples as many would think. The fight in the state of Washington over "everything but marriage" was narrowly won by those who advocated that gays should get the same rights as straights.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    The 14th will eventually be used to strike down all laws prohibiting gay marriage.
    And why I could be talked into a Constitutional Amendment settling this issue once and for all.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  9. #1109
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    And why I could be talked into a Constitutional Amendment settling this issue once and for all.
    It doesn't need an amendment. All it needs is for the laws to be applied equably across the board.

  10. #1110
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    It doesn't need an amendment. All it needs is for the laws to be applied equably across the board.
    The definition of marriage needs to be finalized, obviously the DOMA hasn't kept the issue from wasting our court system time. An amendment that was carefully structured and could not be misinterpretted by the most radical of courts is sorely needed.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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