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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You think this is just about religion? That is a pretty typical response. I don't mean that in a bad way, it just is.

    It is part of it, but even before I was a Christian, I was against same sex marraige. I think it is wrong to support that life style. I don't think gays are different or bad people, but I will not say the life style is OK when I see it as wrong. I do not chastise or shun people who are gay, as I have friends whom I care for greatly who live that life style, it makes them no less friends. In any case I do not condone their life style and they know this.

    Then you say it's not going to hurt my marraige and I agree. That has nothing to do with my decision. This again is also a typical response.

    I am not imposing anything on anyone. I am following my own moral compass in the society I live in politically, and legally within the law. This is in the end, the American way.
    So you don't agree with a certain way people live even though it in no way affects you, and you feel justified in supporting policies which would deny them marriage even though it would be beneficial to their families and would in no way affect you?

    In essence, all you are saying is you find gay sex repugnant. America was established by rationals, not by people who pushed emotion based agendas. Your moral compass is ludicrous if it is not based on reason.

    But your response is pretty typical.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-13-10 at 02:14 AM.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Guys, let's not be so hard on Blackdog. He's been pretty clear in saying that this is his opinion, that he is aware that it is not necessarily based on evidence, and that it is not his position to place his beliefs on anyone. We've seen plenty of folks argue from the anti-GM position not be this honest nor be this respectful; most are demeaning, dishonest, and/or demonstrate a lack of logic and substantiation. Blackdog is not arguing from that position. In a sense, he is arguing from the theist position in a religion vs. atheism debate. He is arguing from a faith position and not placing those beliefs on others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    WHy do you see the lifestyle as wrong?


    Have a good night!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So you don't agree with a certain way people live even though it in no way affects you, and you feel justified in supporting policies which would deny them marriage even though it would be beneficial to their families and would in no way affect you?
    I don't see how this would benefit their family's anymore than a civil union, but sure I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In essence, all you are saying is you find gay sex repugnant. America was established by rationals, not by people who pushed emotion based agendas. Your moral compass is ludicrous if it is not based on reason.
    America was founded by people who viewed females as second class citizens and owned slaves.

    So where does that leave your argument?

    PS how did gay sex get into this?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    But your response is pretty typical.
    No it's not, but you already know this.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-13-10 at 02:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Guys, let's not be so hard on Blackdog. He's been pretty clear in saying that this is his opinion, that he is aware that it is not necessarily based on evidence, and that it is not his position to place his beliefs on anyone. We've seen plenty of folks argue from the anti-GM position not be this honest nor be this respectful; most are demeaning, dishonest, and/or demonstrate a lack of logic and substantiation. Blackdog is not arguing from that position. In a sense, he is arguing from the theist position in a religion vs. atheism debate. He is arguing from a faith position and not placing those beliefs on others.
    Thanks Captain, but it's cool.

    They are just asking the same questions and do not understand my view, and never will.

    The problem is they want me to respect their views when they have no respect for mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't see how this would benefit their family's anymore than a civil union, but sure I agree.
    "Justice denied anywhere diminishes justice everywhere."
    -MLK

    You only hurt yourself when you try to dictate how other people should live their lives by denying them what you cannot reasonably deny them.

    America was founded by people who viewed females as second class citizens and owned slaves.

    So where does that leave your argument?
    With something called the Constitution of the United States, which is the law of the land and a particular 14th amendment to that document which includes something called the Equal Protection Clause which states that no state shall deny people equal protection under the law.

    No it's not, but you already know this.
    Your response is as typical as it gets. A religious argument shielded behind wisdom of repugnance.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-13-10 at 02:34 AM.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Thanks Captain, but it's cool.

    They are just asking the same questions and do not understand my view, and never will.

    The problem is they want me to respect their views when they have no respect for mine.
    I may not agree with you, but you have been FAR more respectful and honest about your position than just about anyone else from "the other side" I've debated. You'd be a good "teammate" in a debate against atheists.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #1098
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Wait. Maybe I'm thinking of K-1 and not Blackdog.

    Dammit! Why are there so many of these gay threads! I can't keep track of who is making what argument!

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    "Justice denied anywhere diminishes justice everywhere."
    -MLK

    You only hurt yourself when you try to dictate how other people should live their lives by denying them what you cannot reasonably deny them.
    I am not denying anyone anything? How many times do I have to repeat that? Please point out where I have gay hostages tied up so they can't get married?

    I also support civil unions, so again by keeping marraige between 1 man and woman I am not denying anyone anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    With something called the Constitution of the United States, which is the law of the land and a particular 14th amendment to that document which includes something called the Equal Protection Clause which states that no state shall deny people equal protection under the law.
    Unfortunately most of our society does not consider 2 men a marraige. This is so much so, a majority of states have written it into the Constitutions of said states.

    So, it does not apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    "Your response is as typical as it gets. A religious argument shielded behind wisdom of repugnance.
    where did you come off with this repugnance thing? Please point out where I have said anything about sex in any way? I am talking about the life style as a whole.

    You are getting into things and accusing me of things that have little or nothing to do with my arguments or beliefs.

    Your tone is getting angry and abusive. You need to calm yourself down and understand not everyone agrees and live with it.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-13-10 at 02:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Wait. Maybe I'm thinking of K-1 and not Blackdog.

    Dammit! Why are there so many of these gay threads! I can't keep track of who is making what argument!
    K-1 and Blackdog are NOTHING alike.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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