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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #1021
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And you know as well as I do it will probably be defeated.



    I already answered this.
    I don't think so. Even with the conservatives that Bush put on it is unlikely that the Supreme Court is going to establish an important governmental interest.

    Most conservative constitutional scholars have even written that they cannot see how it passes Constitutional muster if it reaches the Supreme Court, which is why the fight has been to try to keep the Supreme Court from addressing the issue.
    Bush tried to pre-empt a Supreme Court decision through a Constitutional Amendment, however, it never gained enough support to go anywhere.

    The reality is, the only way that gay marriage is going to be stopped in the United States is if there is a Constitutional Amendment that prevents it.
    I expect the SCOTUS to strike down Prop-8 eventually as unconstitutional and the battle will be whether this country wants to pass a Constitutional Amendment that for the first time in the history of this country, takes away rights rather than expands them.

    That is where the true battle is going to be on this issue.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If it is not the same, then you have two separate categories of people with different rights.
    OK this is getting stupid Red. I have explained it to you what? 3 times already? If you don't get it by now, you will never get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I don't think so. Even with the conservatives that Bush put on it is unlikely that the Supreme Court is going to establish an important governmental interest.

    Most conservative constitutional scholars have even written that they cannot see how it passes Constitutional muster if it reaches the Supreme Court, which is why the fight has been to try to keep the Supreme Court from addressing the issue.
    Bush tried to pre-empt a Supreme Court decision through a Constitutional Amendment, however, it never gained enough support to go anywhere.

    The reality is, the only way that gay marriage is going to be stopped in the United States is if there is a Constitutional Amendment that prevents it.
    I expect the SCOTUS to strike down Prop-8 eventually as unconstitutional and the battle will be whether this country wants to pass a Constitutional Amendment that for the first time in the history of this country, takes away rights rather than expands them.

    That is where the true battle is going to be on this issue.
    Why are you waisting my time? I have already explained my views and they do not, and never will agree with yours.

    You are just repeating the same old tired arguments over and over like they are going to change something. Well let me tell you, they will not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    OK this is getting stupid Red. I have explained it to you what? 3 times already? If you don't get it by now, you will never get it.
    That is kinda my exact feelings. One of us is not making their point well, and the other is not understanding.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No, because they can adopt, and the majority do. Gay couples are the exact opposite. Most do not, and take no interest in the family unit outside of the relationship its self.

    Part of the reason for the fall of our society is the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Gay marraige will not hurt this, but I don't see it helping any either.



    No, it would not.

    Yes they would. If the Governmental interest served by the government excluding gays from marrying is support of rearing children...then any marriage, to exist, must serve that governmental interest. If couples don't want to have children, they wouldn't be able to marry under such a system.
    You are correct about adoption though. However, infertile couples would be required to adopt as a condition to marriage and then you run into another Equal Protection issue and that is, why should this also not be extended to gays. If raising children is the interest served and you can counteract the inability to have children with adoption, then gays should be afforded the same privilege.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Why are you waisting my time? I have already explained my views and they do not, and never will agree with yours.

    You are just repeating the same old tired arguments over and over like they are going to change something. Well let me tell you, they will not.
    I'm not trying to change your views. I'm trying to get you to explain how your position will withstand a Constitutional challenge.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm not trying to change your views. I'm trying to get you to explain how your position will withstand a Constitutional challenge.
    The truth is I don't care all that much because it will probably be defeated anyway, as most see it as a state issue.

    So that is that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is kinda my exact feelings. One of us is not making their point well, and the other is not understanding.
    I have clearly made my point. You keep asking basically the same questions worded slightly differently over and over again.

    I have said what my opinion is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Yes they would. If the Governmental interest served by the government excluding gays from marrying is support of rearing children...then any marriage, to exist, must serve that governmental interest. If couples don't want to have children, they wouldn't be able to marry under such a system.
    You are correct about adoption though. However, infertile couples would be required to adopt as a condition to marriage and then you run into another Equal Protection issue and that is, why should this also not be extended to gays. If raising children is the interest served and you can counteract the inability to have children with adoption, then gays should be afforded the same privilege.
    And that is your opinion and I do not agree. As I have stated over and over again and told you why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #1030
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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The truth is I don't care all that much because it will probably be defeated anyway, as most see it as a state issue.

    So that is that.
    Fair enough. Although I wish that you were more inclined to debate the state interest. I enjoy your posts because they are generally pretty well supported, even if I disagree.
    I just haven't seen any one that is able to put forth an argument that would withstand Constitutional muster. I'm not surprized though, since as I said, even the most conservative of conservative scholars have written saying that this is a problem for them.
    This is why I say the battle will be in the Constitutional Amendment arena.
    The SCOTUS will not uphold the governmental discrimination under equal protection and the right-wing will take their battle to the next level.
    Although this is likely to take a decade to resolve.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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