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Thread: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes I can and have. Your accusation has nothing to do with my point. With a civil union they have all the rights married couples do IN the states that have civil unions.

    End of story.
    Then why have a separate category? Why not just call it marriage, since that is what it effectively is?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If they are not the same thing....how do you rationalize the Government treating classes of people differently under the Equal protection clause.
    Under civil unions they are not being treated different. The difference is purely semantics.

    They don't want to do this for the family, they want to legitimize the gay lifestyle. I do not have to be part of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What important governmental interest is served by the discriminatory act?
    No discrimination. Under civil unions they have all the rights of married couples. If they do want to get married, they can marry someone of the opposite sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That is the question that you have to be able to answer in order for the exclusion to pass Constitutional muster.
    Since no Constitutional challenge has been won, I would say not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm interested in hearing what you believe this interest to be?
    The interest is in a stable family unit and the rearing of children to become productive citizens. Since most gay couple (not all) have little or no interest in rearing children, the state has little interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes I can and have. Your accusation has nothing to do with my point. With a civil union they have all the rights married couples do IN the states that have civil unions.

    End of story.
    Its not the end of story when the issue comes before the SCOTUS...which is likely will very soon.

    That is why I posed the question I did to you....and the question that I pose to everyone who supports the governmental exclusion.

    What "important" governmental interest is served by the government limiting marriage to straight couples?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then why have a separate category? Why not just call it marriage, since that is what it effectively is?
    No it is not. A man cannot marry another man, period. It is not a marraige, but it can be a loving union. Two people committed to each other of the opposite sex make a marraige.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post

    The interest is in a stable family unit and the rearing of children to become productive citizens. Since most gay couple (not all) have little or no interest in rearing children, the state has little interest.


    You raise the child issue here. A nobel attempt (and I don't mean that facetiously).

    The question which then arises and the Supreme Court would have to address in their opinion:

    - Should marriage then be denied to couples who are infertile or choose not to have children. Should child rearing be a requirement for marriage?

    The government would have to make the validity of marriage contingent on having children.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its not the end of story when the issue comes before the SCOTUS...which is likely will very soon.
    And you know as well as I do it will probably be defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That is why I posed the question I did to you....and the question that I pose to everyone who supports the governmental exclusion.

    What "important" governmental interest is served by the government limiting marriage to straight couples?
    I already answered this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Two people committed to each other of the opposite sex make a marraige.
    Because that is how the Government defines it.
    Fine. But if the government is going to define it that way and impose governmental limitations on it, there has to be an "important" governmental interest served by the restriction or it is unconstitutional.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post

    The interest is in a stable family unit and the rearing of children to become productive citizens. Since most gay couple (not all) have little or no interest in rearing children, the state has little interest.
    The number of gays with children, plus the number who are interested in adopting or fostering is staggering. I have posted the numbers more than once here. Believe it or not, gays are people too, and like most people, they are interested in having a family.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No it is not. A man cannot marry another man, period. It is not a marraige, but it can be a loving union. Two people committed to each other of the opposite sex make a marraige.
    If it is not the same, then you have two separate categories of people with different rights.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: New Jersey Senate Defeats Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You raise the child issue here. A nobel attempt (and I don't mean that facetiously).

    The question which then arises and the Supreme Court would have to address in their opinion:

    - Should marriage then be denied to couples who are infertile or choose not to have children. Should child rearing be a requirement for marriage?
    No, because they can adopt, and the majority do. Gay couples are the exact opposite. Most do not, and take no interest in the family unit outside of the relationship its self.

    Part of the reason for the fall of our society is the breakdown of the traditional family unit. Gay marraige will not hurt this, but I don't see it helping any either.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The government would have to make the validity of marriage contingent on having children.
    No, it would not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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