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Thread: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Pretty much the case, there are a few other reasons mostly overlooked.
    It basically boils down to being fat and stupid and our racial make up.

    There are some other things that do effect it as well but, by my estimates,not to the degree as those mentioned do.

    Are these typed in order of your response?


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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    After you remove for homicides and car accidents, the U.S. has the highest life expectancy.
    It's one of those fun with numbers situations that people like to believe without putting an ounce of research into it.

    Even after all that though, life expectancy is a poor way to measure the quality of a medical care system.
    Dont forget to remove gays, blacks, and latinos also, then you would be the best in the world!...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obesity in Europe is on the rise, with no end in sight.

    Obesity Worldwide - Global Overweight

    http://www.dur.ac.uk/ne.pho/view_file.php?c=564
    As it is in the US.. but we still have about half the obesity rate than that of the US.. your point being?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not an attack on private insurance because the private insurers are not to blame for this. The facility is refusing to take a wide range of Medicare payments because the government doesn't pay enough.
    And that is because the private insurance companies with the healthcare industry are driving prices up because of greed. They know that people are forced to pay top dollar because if they dont then they die or live in pain. It is called extortion.

    They "drive up the cost" in the same way that giving everyone government provided Cadillac plans would "drive up the cost" of health care. Private insurers drive up costs by allowing people to get procedures and treatment that they wouldn't otherwise get.
    Yea having a 70 year old get a liver transplant after years of alcohol abuse because he is rich is a fine example of the idiotic behaviour of private run healthcare. Or a 75 year old getting cancer treatment so he can live another year. On the flip side 30 year olds cant get early treatment because they cant afford it.. so end up in the emergency room when it is often too late.

    The private insurance and medical industry drives costs up as I have stated over and over again because they can. There are no stop gaps and no oversight over the industries so if they can get away with asking 50 dollars for an aspirin then they will do so. That insane cost is pushed on in the US to the employers and the people, driving up the over cost of healthcare.

    Take a look at the first law Bush put in place. It basically created a monopoly in the US for drugs and making it a criminal act to import even aspirin into the country. On top of that it prevented the government in negotiating with the drug companies for better deals.. how is that going to help drive down the prices, when the drug industry knows that the government is forced to accept whatever price they are given by the industry?

    Like it or not the talking points promoted by the RNC and written by the healthcare and insurance industries about it is "governments fault" over to "tort reform" (which is some what valid btw), is nothing but hot air with no actual fact behind it and is only out there to divert attention way from the true problem areas... the 2 industries themselves.

    It is ironic that prevention medicine is not being promoted by the healthcare and insurance industries..and is often opposed by the right.. wonder why... oh yea because it would cut into the profit if people did not get sick..

    This is one of the most annoying statistics to hear cited, because it is most commonly misused in the way you're doing now - to argue that our expenditures are higher because of some problem with our system.

    Yes, per capita healthcare spending in the US is significantly higher that in is in most other countries. Why? It's not due to inefficiencies or private insurers, but is almost exclusively due to the fact that we're full of obese people.
    And you use the same old tired excuse over and over again. Is the higher amount of fat people in the US a factor in the higher price? Of course it is. Is it the sole and most important reason? Hell no, not by a long shot. Many if not most of the obesity related issues are with people who have no health insurance in the first place and often go untreated. Those that do get treated get treated at a premium because it is often "too late" and happens in the emergency room, driving up the cost even more. But that happens regardless if you are fat or not.

    I dont deny that life style has a big impact on healthcare costs, but by your claim, Mexico should have near the same healthcare costs as the US.. it does not. The UK should be up there too.. but guess what.. it is about half the US. And on the list there is no Norway, who according to the OECD has the second most expensive system per capita in the world.. so obesity aint an issue there..

    I short, your excuse is flawed on so many levels. But I do admit it does have an impact, just in no way as big an impact as you think it has.

    Do you see the difference? We could install a carbon copy of whatever European UHC program you think is best, and we would still be paying almost twice what every other country pays.
    I see the difference but unlike you I also can see that the difference is not the sole reason for the huge difference between the US and UHC nations. In fact as I have stated, I would wager it is not even the most important reason for the higher cost. When a surgery costs 10x as much in the US than it does in Europe, then you quickly see that there is something rotten in the US.

    Let me ask you a question.. say I go to the US, get sick and have private international insurance (which is highly recommenced when going to the US btw). If it is not life threatening and I can travel, do you think the insurance company will continue to pay for treatment in the US or pay for a plane ticket home for me?...

    If you want to criticize our health care system, please do so based on the actual problems with it, not based on factors that will remain unchanged under any system.
    That is exactly what I am doing. It is you that brought up the obesity excuse. The US problem is the for profit system that has zero accountability. The healthcare industry and private insurance industry are milking the American public for every penny the can squeeze out of it and putting lives in danger.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Robert Berenson, a fellow at the Urban Institute’s Health Policy Center in Washington, D.C., said physicians’ claims of inadequate reimbursement are overstated. Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists and pediatricians who oversee patients’ primary care.
    A government agency states that government programs are GOOD!!!! Well, now I am convinced.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Nope, but we should not have to pay more for the same type of treatment that cost less at let's say Cigna.

    If you can receive the same care for less the cost, then why should the gov't pay a higher amount. Now if you choose to use Mayo because of their reputation, then that is your choice, and you should pay for it. Or, you should pay for an insurance that will cover Mayo.

    If I go to the store, and I have two identical items, one generic and one brand name, I will pay for the generic because it cost less. Now if you want to purchase the brand name that is your choice, and you should be able to purchase it.
    The government does not pay enough. That is why you see more and more not accepting medicare or medicaid.

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And that is because the private insurance companies with the healthcare industry are driving prices up because of greed. They know that people are forced to pay top dollar because if they dont then they die or live in pain. It is called extortion.
    Did you think this little bit of convoluted logic up yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yea having a 70 year old get a liver transplant after years of alcohol abuse because he is rich is a fine example of the idiotic behaviour of private run healthcare.
    This, doesn't happen. There is more to it then money involved... you are welcome to give an example of this... please, I'd love to see proof this happens, not happened once 10 years ago... but happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Or a 75 year old getting cancer treatment so he can live another year.
    What the hell is wrong with giving cancer treatment to older folks?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    On the flip side 30 year olds cant get early treatment because they cant afford it.. so end up in the emergency room when it is often too late.
    Oh, you're playing the propaganda line here... the rich old people can afford high priced cancer treatment but the younger folks are too poor to afford it and die. That's a great soap opera line, but doesn't match reality. Take me and my wife, we're not exactly dirt poor, but we are by no means rich... we can afford to go. Why? Because we understand that's how the system is, and we pay for Insurance, GOOD insurance. I have co-workers with access to the same insurance, that chose not ot have it. You know why? Their young, don't need it, want the $350 a month in their pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The private insurance and medical industry drives costs up as I have stated over and over again because they can. There are no stop gaps and no oversight over the industries so if they can get away with asking 50 dollars for an aspirin then they will do so. That insane cost is pushed on in the US to the employers and the people, driving up the over cost of healthcare.
    Has it ever crossed your mind that the medical side charge $50 for an aspirin to cover oh... the cost of the Medicare they have to eat? The Illegals they have to treat for free? The cost of doing all the paperwork the government enforces on them? Again, you ignore the burden the Government creates, claim it's all about greedy people, and demand MORE Government.

    It's almost astounding how incapable you are of finding fault with the Government.

    I'm actually bored now responding to you.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    1. this thread contains some of the most intelligent, informative individual posts i've seen around here in awhile

    2. mayo was obama's model

    3. this story illustrates the nation-wide problem of medicare's and even more medicaid's cut-rate reimbursement of caregivers

    4. mayo's migraines over medicare extend beyond arizona

    Mayo Clinic feels effects of recession, Medicare | StarTribune.com

    5. kent conrad has been the party's primary spokesperson on this particular point

    Conrad back in health care spotlight

    6. harry reid who, like dorgan, has apparently put away his principles on this, once called his own bill "not good for nevada" for THIS very reason, the expansion of medicaid upon his state, which is already having trouble keeping doctors in play

    Harry Reid: Health care bill won't work for Nevada - Wednesday, Sept. 16, 2009 | 10:36 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

    7. mayo's dilemna emerges BEFORE passage of the bill

    8. that is, EVEN WITH THE DOC FIX medicare's and medicaid's payment schedules are woefully wanting

    9. obamacare exacerbates these already perilous problems

    10. it mandates a 10 million member expansion of medicaid, unfunded

    11. governors, both blue and red, are in open revolt over these unbacked burdens placed on their already sway-backed states

    Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

    12. senator feinstein has spoken forcefully on the topic

    Feinstein skeptical about health care costs - SFGate

    13. indeed, on abc's this week with george stephanopoulos about a month ago, ms fi declared determinatively that she would never support a bill that does exactly what obama's bill does

    14. i guess, like reid and conrad, she forgot

    15. and why do ONLY 49 STATES have to bear this brunt, ben?

    16. this is not to say the bill won't pass, it probably will

    17. but the problems facing obamacare as outlined in this thoughtful thread are very, very real

    18. and they will occupy prominent places in our political landscape as we proceed

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are these typed in order of your response?


    j-mac
    Please clarify.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Dont forget to remove gays, blacks, and latinos also, then you would be the best in the world!...
    Nope you don't have to do that at all.

    Trying to paint me as a bigot though, poor form.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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