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Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

Harry Guerrilla said:
Pretty much the case, there are a few other reasons mostly overlooked.
It basically boils down to being fat and stupid and our racial make up.

There are some other things that do effect it as well but, by my estimates,not to the degree as those mentioned do.
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Are these typed in order of your response?


j-mac
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
After you remove for homicides and car accidents, the U.S. has the highest life expectancy.
It's one of those fun with numbers situations that people like to believe without putting an ounce of research into it.

Even after all that though, life expectancy is a poor way to measure the quality of a medical care system.
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Dont forget to remove gays, blacks, and latinos also, then you would be the best in the world!...
 
RightinNYC said:
It's not an attack on private insurance because the private insurers are not to blame for this. The facility is refusing to take a wide range of Medicare payments because the government doesn't pay enough.
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And that is because the private insurance companies with the healthcare industry are driving prices up because of greed. They know that people are forced to pay top dollar because if they dont then they die or live in pain. It is called extortion.

They "drive up the cost" in the same way that giving everyone government provided Cadillac plans would "drive up the cost" of health care. Private insurers drive up costs by allowing people to get procedures and treatment that they wouldn't otherwise get.
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Yea having a 70 year old get a liver transplant after years of alcohol abuse because he is rich is a fine example of the idiotic behaviour of private run healthcare. Or a 75 year old getting cancer treatment so he can live another year. On the flip side 30 year olds cant get early treatment because they cant afford it.. so end up in the emergency room when it is often too late.

The private insurance and medical industry drives costs up as I have stated over and over again because they can. There are no stop gaps and no oversight over the industries so if they can get away with asking 50 dollars for an aspirin then they will do so. That insane cost is pushed on in the US to the employers and the people, driving up the over cost of healthcare.

Take a look at the first law Bush put in place. It basically created a monopoly in the US for drugs and making it a criminal act to import even aspirin into the country. On top of that it prevented the government in negotiating with the drug companies for better deals.. how is that going to help drive down the prices, when the drug industry knows that the government is forced to accept whatever price they are given by the industry?

Like it or not the talking points promoted by the RNC and written by the healthcare and insurance industries about it is "governments fault" over to "tort reform" (which is some what valid btw), is nothing but hot air with no actual fact behind it and is only out there to divert attention way from the true problem areas... the 2 industries themselves.

It is ironic that prevention medicine is not being promoted by the healthcare and insurance industries..and is often opposed by the right.. wonder why... oh yea because it would cut into the profit if people did not get sick..

This is one of the most annoying statistics to hear cited, because it is most commonly misused in the way you're doing now - to argue that our expenditures are higher because of some problem with our system.

Yes, per capita healthcare spending in the US is significantly higher that in is in most other countries. Why? It's not due to inefficiencies or private insurers, but is almost exclusively due to the fact that we're full of obese people.
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And you use the same old tired excuse over and over again. Is the higher amount of fat people in the US a factor in the higher price? Of course it is. Is it the sole and most important reason? Hell no, not by a long shot. Many if not most of the obesity related issues are with people who have no health insurance in the first place and often go untreated. Those that do get treated get treated at a premium because it is often "too late" and happens in the emergency room, driving up the cost even more. But that happens regardless if you are fat or not.

I dont deny that life style has a big impact on healthcare costs, but by your claim, Mexico should have near the same healthcare costs as the US.. it does not. The UK should be up there too.. but guess what.. it is about half the US. And on the list there is no Norway, who according to the OECD has the second most expensive system per capita in the world.. so obesity aint an issue there..

I short, your excuse is flawed on so many levels. But I do admit it does have an impact, just in no way as big an impact as you think it has.

Do you see the difference? We could install a carbon copy of whatever European UHC program you think is best, and we would still be paying almost twice what every other country pays.
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I see the difference but unlike you I also can see that the difference is not the sole reason for the huge difference between the US and UHC nations. In fact as I have stated, I would wager it is not even the most important reason for the higher cost. When a surgery costs 10x as much in the US than it does in Europe, then you quickly see that there is something rotten in the US.

Let me ask you a question.. say I go to the US, get sick and have private international insurance (which is highly recommenced when going to the US btw). If it is not life threatening and I can travel, do you think the insurance company will continue to pay for treatment in the US or pay for a plane ticket home for me?...

If you want to criticize our health care system, please do so based on the actual problems with it, not based on factors that will remain unchanged under any system.
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That is exactly what I am doing. It is you that brought up the obesity excuse. The US problem is the for profit system that has zero accountability. The healthcare industry and private insurance industry are milking the American public for every penny the can squeeze out of it and putting lives in danger.
 
hazlnut said:
Robert Berenson, a fellow at the Urban Institute’s Health Policy Center in Washington, D.C., said physicians’ claims of inadequate reimbursement are overstated. Rather, the program faces a lack of medical providers because not enough new doctors are becoming family doctors, internists and pediatricians who oversee patients’ primary care.
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A government agency states that government programs are GOOD!!!! Well, now I am convinced.:roll:
 
TBone said:
Nope, but we should not have to pay more for the same type of treatment that cost less at let's say Cigna.

If you can receive the same care for less the cost, then why should the gov't pay a higher amount. Now if you choose to use Mayo because of their reputation, then that is your choice, and you should pay for it. Or, you should pay for an insurance that will cover Mayo.

If I go to the store, and I have two identical items, one generic and one brand name, I will pay for the generic because it cost less. Now if you want to purchase the brand name that is your choice, and you should be able to purchase it.
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The government does not pay enough. That is why you see more and more not accepting medicare or medicaid.
 
PeteEU said:
And that is because the private insurance companies with the healthcare industry are driving prices up because of greed. They know that people are forced to pay top dollar because if they dont then they die or live in pain. It is called extortion.
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Did you think this little bit of convoluted logic up yourself?

PeteEU said:
Yea having a 70 year old get a liver transplant after years of alcohol abuse because he is rich is a fine example of the idiotic behaviour of private run healthcare.
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This, doesn't happen. There is more to it then money involved... you are welcome to give an example of this... please, I'd love to see proof this happens, not happened once 10 years ago... but happens.

PeteEU said:
Or a 75 year old getting cancer treatment so he can live another year.
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What the hell is wrong with giving cancer treatment to older folks?

PeteEU said:
On the flip side 30 year olds cant get early treatment because they cant afford it.. so end up in the emergency room when it is often too late.
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Oh, you're playing the propaganda line here... the rich old people can afford high priced cancer treatment but the younger folks are too poor to afford it and die. That's a great soap opera line, but doesn't match reality. Take me and my wife, we're not exactly dirt poor, but we are by no means rich... we can afford to go. Why? Because we understand that's how the system is, and we pay for Insurance, GOOD insurance. I have co-workers with access to the same insurance, that chose not ot have it. You know why? Their young, don't need it, want the $350 a month in their pocket.

PeteEU said:
The private insurance and medical industry drives costs up as I have stated over and over again because they can. There are no stop gaps and no oversight over the industries so if they can get away with asking 50 dollars for an aspirin then they will do so. That insane cost is pushed on in the US to the employers and the people, driving up the over cost of healthcare.
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Has it ever crossed your mind that the medical side charge $50 for an aspirin to cover oh... the cost of the Medicare they have to eat? The Illegals they have to treat for free? The cost of doing all the paperwork the government enforces on them? Again, you ignore the burden the Government creates, claim it's all about greedy people, and demand MORE Government.

It's almost astounding how incapable you are of finding fault with the Government.

I'm actually bored now responding to you.
 
1. this thread contains some of the most intelligent, informative individual posts i've seen around here in awhile

2. mayo was obama's model

3. this story illustrates the nation-wide problem of medicare's and even more medicaid's cut-rate reimbursement of caregivers

4. mayo's migraines over medicare extend beyond arizona

Mayo Clinic feels effects of recession, Medicare | StarTribune.com

5. kent conrad has been the party's primary spokesperson on this particular point

Conrad back in health care spotlight

6. harry reid who, like dorgan, has apparently put away his principles on this, once called his own bill "not good for nevada" for THIS very reason, the expansion of medicaid upon his state, which is already having trouble keeping doctors in play

Harry Reid: Health care bill won't work for Nevada - Wednesday, Sept. 16, 2009 | 10:36 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

7. mayo's dilemna emerges BEFORE passage of the bill

8. that is, EVEN WITH THE DOC FIX medicare's and medicaid's payment schedules are woefully wanting

9. obamacare exacerbates these already perilous problems

10. it mandates a 10 million member expansion of medicaid, unfunded

11. governors, both blue and red, are in open revolt over these unbacked burdens placed on their already sway-backed states

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

12. senator feinstein has spoken forcefully on the topic

Feinstein skeptical about health care costs - SFGate

13. indeed, on abc's this week with george stephanopoulos about a month ago, ms fi declared determinatively that she would never support a bill that does exactly what obama's bill does

14. i guess, like reid and conrad, she forgot

15. and why do ONLY 49 STATES have to bear this brunt, ben?

16. this is not to say the bill won't pass, it probably will

17. but the problems facing obamacare as outlined in this thoughtful thread are very, very real

18. and they will occupy prominent places in our political landscape as we proceed
 
MrVicchio said:
Did you think this little bit of convoluted logic up yourself?


This, doesn't happen. There is more to it then money involved... you are welcome to give an example of this... please, I'd love to see proof this happens, not happened once 10 years ago... but happens.

What the hell is wrong with giving cancer treatment to older folks?



Oh, you're playing the propaganda line here... the rich old people can afford high priced cancer treatment but the younger folks are too poor to afford it and die. That's a great soap opera line, but doesn't match reality. Take me and my wife, we're not exactly dirt poor, but we are by no means rich... we can afford to go. Why? Because we understand that's how the system is, and we pay for Insurance, GOOD insurance. I have co-workers with access to the same insurance, that chose not ot have it. You know why? Their young, don't need it, want the $350 a month in their pocket.



Has it ever crossed your mind that the medical side charge $50 for an aspirin to cover oh... the cost of the Medicare they have to eat? The Illegals they have to treat for free? The cost of doing all the paperwork the government enforces on them? Again, you ignore the burden the Government creates, claim it's all about greedy people, and demand MORE Government.

It's almost astounding how incapable you are of finding fault with the Government.

I'm actually bored now responding to you.
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I'd add, why doesn't anyone complain about the greedy, for profit health care workers?

You'd think that they would also bear the brunt of the "making a profit off of anothers suffering" argument.
 
PeteEU said:
And that is because the private insurance companies with the healthcare industry are driving prices up because of greed. They know that people are forced to pay top dollar because if they dont then they die or live in pain. It is called extortion.
Click to expand...

Making ludicrous and unsupportable statements doesn't help your credibility.

Yea having a 70 year old get a liver transplant after years of alcohol abuse because he is rich is a fine example of the idiotic behaviour of private run healthcare. Or a 75 year old getting cancer treatment so he can live another year. On the flip side 30 year olds cant get early treatment because they cant afford it.. so end up in the emergency room when it is often too late.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here - are you saying that it's bad that these older people get that treatment? You would prefer that they simply die?

The private insurance and medical industry drives costs up as I have stated over and over again because they can. There are no stop gaps and no oversight over the industries so if they can get away with asking 50 dollars for an aspirin then they will do so. That insane cost is pushed on in the US to the employers and the people, driving up the over cost of healthcare.
Click to expand...

And in what way is this different from any other industry?

Take a look at the first law Bush put in place. It basically created a monopoly in the US for drugs and making it a criminal act to import even aspirin into the country. On top of that it prevented the government in negotiating with the drug companies for better deals.. how is that going to help drive down the prices, when the drug industry knows that the government is forced to accept whatever price they are given by the industry?
Click to expand...

Because the government doesn't have to buy that particular drug?

Like it or not the talking points promoted by the RNC and written by the healthcare and insurance industries about it is "governments fault" over to "tort reform" (which is some what valid btw), is nothing but hot air with no actual fact behind it and is only out there to divert attention way from the true problem areas... the 2 industries themselves.
Click to expand...

Oh, well so long as you've decided so. Facts be damned!

It is ironic that prevention medicine is not being promoted by the healthcare and insurance industries..and is often opposed by the right.. wonder why... oh yea because it would cut into the profit if people did not get sick..
Click to expand...

Where the **** are you getting this ****?

And you use the same old tired excuse over and over again. Is the higher amount of fat people in the US a factor in the higher price? Of course it is. Is it the sole and most important reason? Hell no, not by a long shot.
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Well, you certainly know more about this than the researchers who conducted the study I referenced.

Many if not most of the obesity related issues are with people who have no health insurance in the first place and often go untreated.
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How exactly is obesity due to a lack of health insurance?

I dont deny that life style has a big impact on healthcare costs, but by your claim, Mexico should have near the same healthcare costs as the US..
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No, it shouldn't. Did you read anything I wrote? Mexico doesn't have the same level of healthcare expenditures because they don't offer the same quality of care. If Mexico offered the same quality of care as the US (with the same overhead), it's likely that their costs would be closer to ours.

The UK should be up there too.. but guess what.. it is about half the US. And on the list there is no Norway, who according to the OECD has the second most expensive system per capita in the world.. so obesity aint an issue there..
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Yes, because it's absolutely impossible that the same concerns I just mentioned might come into play there.

I short, your excuse is flawed on so many levels. But I do admit it does have an impact, just in no way as big an impact as you think it has.
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Again, you're obviously smarter than those researchers.

I see the difference but unlike you I also can see that the difference is not the sole reason for the huge difference between the US and UHC nations. In fact as I have stated, I would wager it is not even the most important reason for the higher cost. When a surgery costs 10x as much in the US than it does in Europe, then you quickly see that there is something rotten in the US.
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Why do you think a surgery would cost 10X more to perform here (if that actually happens)? I'd love to hear your explanation.

Let me ask you a question.. say I go to the US, get sick and have private international insurance (which is highly recommenced when going to the US btw). If it is not life threatening and I can travel, do you think the insurance company will continue to pay for treatment in the US or pay for a plane ticket home for me?...
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No idea. Probably send you home, because that way your country is on the hook for it.

That is exactly what I am doing. It is you that brought up the obesity excuse. The US problem is the for profit system that has zero accountability. The healthcare industry and private insurance industry are milking the American public for every penny the can squeeze out of it and putting lives in danger.
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Don't let facts or logic get in the way of a good rant.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I'd add, why doesn't anyone complain about the greedy, for profit health care workers?

You'd think that they would also bear the brunt of the "making a profit off of anothers suffering" argument.
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That comes next, once there are more people in Medicare/Medicaid/government funded programs. Once those programs start collapsing, we're going to see all sorts of ads about those awful doctors who make $400,000 for looking at X-rays while hard-working Americans are unable to get healthcare for their sick and dying children.
 
RightinNYC said:
That comes next, once there are more people in Medicare/Medicaid/government funded programs. Once those programs start collapsing, we're going to see all sorts of ads about those awful doctors who make $400,000 for looking at X-rays while hard-working Americans are unable to get healthcare for their sick and dying children.
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It's especially ironic when nurses tell me that there shouldn't be profit in medical care.

Mega lulz. :2razz:
 
Phoenix said:
A government agency states that government programs are GOOD!!!! Well, now I am convinced.:roll:
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You're referring to Urban Institute? Are you assuming that they are a "government agency" because they are located in Washington D.C.?

Are you trying to convince us all that you are not too bright?
 
ptif219 said:
So can the left and Obama explain how a medical facility can run if medicare is paying less then the care cost?
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If we cover the tens of millions of uninsured americans it will cost less! We add millions of people into the system and it will save money!

Silly common sence people will never understand this.

The government is right and you are wrong and this is they way it will always be so stop trying to think for yourselves.
 
j-mac said:
I didn't say he was necessarily wrong, I would confess that I am not privy to all the data that he may have, and I might add neither are you, or hazlnut. But, to take his conclusion at face value considering that he is such a big supporter of Obama and his plans, I think would be foolish.
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Paraphrasing:

I didn't say he was necessarily wrong, I just implied it by showing that he contributed to Obama I would confess that I am not privy to all the data that he may have, unless it's on Fox, it's not data I will accept anyway and I might add neither are you, or hazlnut. with all your big words and fancy books But, to take his conclusion at face value considering that he is such a big supporter of Obama the antichrist and his plans to destroy Jesus in the final smackdown, I think would be foolish. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me — you can't get fooled again...
 
RightinNYC said:
It's not an attack on private insurance because the private insurers are not to blame for this. The facility is refusing to take a wide range of Medicare payments because the government doesn't pay enough.
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That's not what the story says, try again.

Also --

Wide range? Where do you get that?
 
hazlnut said:
That's not what the story says, try again.

Also --

Wide range? Where do you get that?
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That's EXACTLY what it says, troll.

The Mayo Clinic, praised by President Barack Obama as a national model for efficient health care, will stop accepting Medicare patients as of tomorrow at one of its primary-care clinics in Arizona, saying the U.S. government pays too little.
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Baralis said:
If we cover the tens of millions of uninsured americans it will cost less! We add millions of people into the system and it will save money!

Silly common sence people will never understand this.

The government is right and you are wrong and this is they way it will always be so stop trying to think for yourselves.
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How will it save money? If anything these people still will not be able to pay. That means the taxpayers pay more money out no income. This program will go bankrupt just like SS and medicare and medicaid are. The feds will make the states pay and they will go bankrupt causing state taxes also to go up.

It will cause the middle class to pay even more for health care then they do now.
 
hazlnut said:
You're referring to Urban Institute? Are you assuming that they are a "government agency" because they are located in Washington D.C.?

Are you trying to convince us all that you are not too bright?
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Do you actually research anything or just post the very first thing that pops in your head?

(Hint: here is where you Google the place and find out it is a government agency and then issue a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mea_culpa"]Mea Culpa[/ame].)

(PS hint: If it's underlined you can click on it!)
 
PeteEU said:
It is ironic that prevention medicine is not being promoted by the healthcare and insurance industries..and is often opposed by the right.. wonder why... oh yea because it would cut into the profit if people did not get sick..
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The government studies would suggest differently. They claim universal preventative medicine would be more costly and conversely would be more profitable to the insurance companies.

Congressional Budget Expert Says Preventive Care Will Raise -- Not Cut -- Costs - Political Punch
 
All of my doctors have told me if this healthcare bill goes through that they will leave the country to practice in other places because they will no longer be able to afford a practice here. I am not talking making money as they claim they will not be able to afford their equitment they use and stuff like that.
 
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