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Thread: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's fair market value because others are willing to pay it.
    No argument here, capitalism at its best. I am all for it. If I want a superior product, I pay for it. If I can get the same product for less, I will pay for the product that is priced less.

    I would venture to say that a large majority on this forum would agree or do the same.
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This is one of the most annoying statistics to hear cited, because it is most commonly misused in the way you're doing not - to argue that our expenditures are higher because of some problem with our system.

    Yes, per capita healthcare spending in the US is significantly higher that in is in most other countries. Why? It's not due to inefficiencies or private insurers, but is almost exclusively due to the fact that we're full of obese people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/opinion/10pollan.html





    Do you see the difference? We could install a carbon copy of whatever European UHC program you think is best, and we would still be paying almost twice what every other country pays.

    If you want to criticize our health care system, please do so based on the actual problems with it, not based on factors that will remain unchanged under any system.
    Obesity is also the most likely reason for why the US has a lower life expectancy when compared to other modern nations. For instance, France has approximately half our mortality rate for heart disease.

    France: http://www.who.int/whosis/mort/profi...fra_france.pdf ; https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/fr.html .

    US: FASTSTATS - Deaths and Mortality ; US & World Population Clock .

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    It can and has been argued that medical costs have risen so much largely because of insurance. When people were responsible for paying for their own medical need, they saw the actual costs of the services and were more frugal in using them. No trips to the emergency room for minor scrapes or runny noses.

    When business funded insurance became the norm, people were only responsible for paying a small copay, so tended to go to the doctor much more often when they really didn't need to. Since insurance companies pay on a scale that doesn't take into consideration such things as local cost of living, real-estate costs, etc. the doctors were not getting paid enough to cover costs so the doctors started charging more. Over time we have seen prices rise dramatically.

    However, the insurance agencies were not the real problem. Over that same time frame, 60's to present, the number of people getting their medical coverage from the government has skyrocketed. The government pays dramatically less for the same services than the insurance agencies do. So the doctors again raise prices that they bill the insurance companies.

    There have been some steps taken over the years that have helped. Health Savings accounts are great. Money you put into a health savings account is tax free as long as you leave it in the account or use it for health care. Combine the HSA with a catastrophic coverage policy and you have a low cost insurance plan with incentive to save as well as encouraging responsible use of health care facilities.

    HSA are outlawed under the Obamacare plan.

    For those of you who don't have health insurance, tell the doctor up front that you are paying cash and your prices are often 40-60% lower than the price charged to the insurance companies. They still make money on you, but they don't have to spend all those hours fighting with the insurance companies or the government to get paid. Most doctors that I have seen in the past year were happy to see me as they knew they would actually get paid for the work they were doing.

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Obesity is also the most likely reason for why the US has a lower life expectancy when compared to other modern nations. For instance, France has approximately half our mortality rate for heart disease.

    France: http://www.who.int/whosis/mort/profi...fra_france.pdf ; https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/fr.html .

    US: FASTSTATS - Deaths and Mortality ; US & World Population Clock .
    Obesity in Europe is on the rise, with no end in sight.

    http://www.annecollins.com/obesity/w...de-obesity.htm

    http://www.dur.ac.uk/ne.pho/view_file.php?c=564
    Last edited by American; 01-01-10 at 06:21 PM.
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Obesity is also the most likely reason for why the US has a lower life expectancy when compared to other modern nations. For instance, France has approximately half our mortality rate for heart disease.

    France: http://www.who.int/whosis/mort/profi...fra_france.pdf ; https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/fr.html .

    US: FASTSTATS - Deaths and Mortality ; US & World Population Clock .
    After you remove for homicides and car accidents, the U.S. has the highest life expectancy.
    It's one of those fun with numbers situations that people like to believe without putting an ounce of research into it.

    Even after all that though, life expectancy is a poor way to measure the quality of a medical care system.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Obesity in Europe is on the rise, with no end in sight.

    Obesity Worldwide - Global Overweight

    http://www.dur.ac.uk/ne.pho/view_file.php?c=564
    Then you can expect their life expectancies to decrease accordingly...

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    I would add to this discussion the fact that if we could eliminate substantially the three modern plagues in the U.S., obesity, high blood pressure and diabetes our overall life expectancy would probably rise 10 years.

    It astonishes me how badly some people treat their health. If anyone has had the opportunity of watching "Dr. G." on television she is a medical examiner who regularly has to determine the cause of death in very young people and the incidence of heart disease is terrible and one of the major causes is high blood pressure. When she weighs the heart it is often twice the normal weight. When it gets to that point the life expectancy of anyone is greatly diminished.

    And then we cram our mouths with everything under the sun. It is a wonder we don't weigh twice what we weigh and live as long a we do. The amount of food at restaurants they serve today is ridiculous. There is a local restaurant we went the other day and my wife and I split one meal. We still had enough left over to bring home to make our evening meal. In other words we had enough for four full adult meals. And I'm a hearty eater if that tells you anything.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    After you remove for homicides and car accidents, the U.S. has the highest life expectancy.
    It's one of those fun with numbers situations that people like to believe without putting an ounce of research into it.

    Even after all that though, life expectancy is a poor way to measure the quality of a medical care system.
    You ever watch those ER shows on the Discovery Channel? The attending physician was heard to remark quite frequently, "This is not a random occurrence."

    This was in reference to the people winding up in the ER.

    Drunk driving on a motorcycle.

    Drunk and fell down some stairs.

    Gang members shooting each other.

    Basically, if we're unhealthy, it's because we're fat and stupid.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 01-01-10 at 06:34 PM.

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You ever watch those ER shows on the Discovery Channel? The attending physician was heard to remark quite frequently, "This is not a random occurrence."

    This was in reference to the people winding up in the ER.

    Drunk driving on a motorcycle.

    Drunk and fell down some stairs.

    Gang members shooting each other.

    Basically, if we're unhealthy, it's because we're fat and stupid.
    Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, America.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You ever watch those ER shows on the Discovery Channel? The attending physician was heard to remark quite frequently, "This is not a random occurrence."

    This was in reference to the people winding up in the ER.

    Drunk driving on a motorcycle.

    Drunk and fell down some stairs.

    Gang members shooting each other.

    Basically, we're fat and stupid.
    Pretty much the case, there are a few other reasons mostly overlooked.
    It basically boils down to being fat and stupid and our racial make up.

    There are some other things that do effect it as well but, by my estimates,not to the degree as those mentioned do.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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