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Thread: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

  1. #31
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Do you? Do you deny my comment that the problem lies with the insurance industry and the medical industry? That they are driving up the cost of healthcare in the US?

    http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,33...1_1,00.html#B5

    over 7000 dollars for every man, woman and child now per year..almost double that of the nearest country who btw, provides healthcare for all.
    Did you not bother to read the story?

    "It lost $840 million last year on Medicare, the government’s health program for the disabled and those 65 and older, Mayo spokeswoman Lynn Closway said."

    Now what do you believe, the Mayo Clinic just wrote off $840 million and called it a loss or they made up for it by charging insurance companies more?

    Why should insurance companies subsidize Medicare?
    Why is it ok for the government to receive a type of corporate welfare?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    You're falling for all the propaganda. Please read from someone who's experienced both Canadian and US health care.

    Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org
    I'm both a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and an uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border. As such, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If we're going to have this conversation, it would be great if we could start out (for once) with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here.

    To that end, here's the first of a two-part series aimed at busting the common myths Americans routinely tell each other about Canadian health care. When the right-wing hysterics drag out these hoary old bogeymen, this time, we need to be armed and ready to blast them into straw. Because, mostly, straw is all they're made of.


    Mythbusting Canadian Health Care, Part II: Debunking the Free Marketeers | OurFuture.org
    Rrrrright because personal experience always trumps facts.


    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    Mythbusting Canadian Health Care, Part II: Debunking the Free Marketeers | OurFuture

    Government-run health care is inherently less efficient -- because governments themselves are inherently less efficient.
    If anything could finally put the lie to this old conservative canard, the disaster that is our health care system is Exhibit A.

    America spends about 15% of its GDP on health care. Most other industrialized countries (all of whom have some form of universal care) spend about 11-12%. According to the WHO, Canada spends a bit over 9% -- and most of the problems within their system come out of the fact that it's chronically underfunded compared to the international average.

    Any system that has people spending more and getting less is, by definition, not efficient. And these efficiency leaks are, almost entirely, due to private greed.
    So we are going to assume that because the states spend more that it is automatically inferior?

    You need more data and less emo hand wringing.

    And speaking of private greed, do doctors, nurses and all the other health care workers do their jobs for free or only make enough money to support the necessities of life?

    Are they greedy for wanting more money than they need?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Now what do you believe, the Mayo Clinic just wrote off $840 million and called it a loss or they made up for it by charging insurance companies more?
    And that cost was most likely passed onto the consumer.

    So, basically, what happens is:

    1. Government raises prices for the consumer.

    2. The consumer complains to the government.

    3. The government blames the insurance company, and the consumer believes them.

    Politicians...

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And speaking of private greed, do doctors, nurses and all the other health care workers do their jobs for free or only make enough money to support the necessities of life?

    Are they greedy for wanting more money than they need?
    My uncle is a radiologist. Right now he's think of switching careers.

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    Educator TBone's Avatar
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So we should expect more inferior healthcare under the new government plan
    Nope, but we should not have to pay more for the same type of treatment that cost less at let's say Cigna.

    If you can receive the same care for less the cost, then why should the gov't pay a higher amount. Now if you choose to use Mayo because of their reputation, then that is your choice, and you should pay for it. Or, you should pay for an insurance that will cover Mayo.

    If I go to the store, and I have two identical items, one generic and one brand name, I will pay for the generic because it cost less. Now if you want to purchase the brand name that is your choice, and you should be able to purchase it.
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    Educator TBone's Avatar
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You think this is about the Mayo Clinic being over priced?
    Yes, I do.

    Mayo wants to charge more and the gov't wants to pay less. This doesn't only happen with gov't ran insurances.

    Most insurance companies have a schedule/list of prices they will pay for certain procedures. Is the price fair or are the prices fair market value? I don't know, but are the prices that MD's charging fair market value or inflated?
    It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    My uncle is a radiologist. Right now he's think of switching careers.
    I wouldn't worry about that immediately, they won't do very much to change the pay structure of what doctors and health care workers make.

    I'd be more worried if I were in the insurance business though.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by TBone View Post
    Yes, I do.

    Mayo wants to charge more and the gov't wants to pay less. This doesn't only happen with gov't ran insurances.

    Most insurance companies have a schedule/list of prices they will pay for certain procedures. Is the price fair or are the prices fair market value? I don't know, but are the prices that MD's charging fair market value or inflated?
    It's fair market value because others are willing to pay it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So we should expect more inferior healthcare under the new government plan
    You can expect a lot of medical professionals to retire or change careers. You can also expect potential medical professionals to reconsider entering the field. I know I am.

  10. #40
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    Re: Mayo Clinic in Arizona to Stop Treating Some Medicare Patients

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So can the left and Obama explain how a medical facility can run if medicare is paying less then the care cost?
    It can run just fine, provided that private insurers reimburse the facility at a rate that exceeds the cost of those private procedures + the shortfall of the medicare payments.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Most of these comments are hilarious, full of denial. Not once is the private insurance and medical industry blamed for anything.. all blame is put on government and the idea of UHC.. pathetic.
    It's not an attack on private insurance because the private insurers are not to blame for this. The facility is refusing to take a wide range of Medicare payments because the government doesn't pay enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Do you? Do you deny my comment that the problem lies with the insurance industry and the medical industry? That they are driving up the cost of healthcare in the US?

    http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,33...1_1,00.html#B5
    They "drive up the cost" in the same way that giving everyone government provided Cadillac plans would "drive up the cost" of health care. Private insurers drive up costs by allowing people to get procedures and treatment that they wouldn't otherwise get.

    over 7000 dollars for every man, woman and child now per year..almost double that of the nearest country who btw, provides healthcare for all.
    This is one of the most annoying statistics to hear cited, because it is most commonly misused in the way you're doing now - to argue that our expenditures are higher because of some problem with our system.

    Yes, per capita healthcare spending in the US is significantly higher that in is in most other countries. Why? It's not due to inefficiencies or private insurers, but is almost exclusively due to the fact that we're full of obese people.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/opinion/10pollan.html

    No one disputes that the $2.3 trillion we devote to the health care industry is often spent unwisely, but the fact that the United States spends twice as much per person as most European countries on health care can be substantially explained, as a study released last month says, by our being fatter.


    Do you see the difference? We could install a carbon copy of whatever European UHC program you think is best, and we would still be paying almost twice what every other country pays.

    If you want to criticize our health care system, please do so based on the actual problems with it, not based on factors that will remain unchanged under any system.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 01-01-10 at 05:50 PM.
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