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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wouldn't be the same. Afghanistan and Pakistan could surrender, and still nothing would change. There are real differences that make those comparisons invalid.
    In WWII Japan could have surrendered and did and still there were those willing to continue fighting just as was the case in Germany.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Different situation. Terrorists are a small, covert (mostly) portion of a population in most cases.

    Most of the population of Japan was prepared to fight invading forces.
    I never said they weren't different situations.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Look at the rise in sucide bombings escalating things to that level would produce.
    Show me something to actually look at and I will.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    In WWII Japan could have surrendered and did and still there were those willing to continue fighting just as was the case in Germany.
    Very few. Many connected with the government and saw it as over. Most did. Few if any did want would be done in these countries.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Look at the firebombing of Tokyo and dropping atom bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and the subsequent 60 years of peace.
    The atom bombs did decisively end the war, however, part of the reason for the 60 years of peace was due to our decades long efforts to build them back up and not leave the country hanging after the war.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Look at the rise in suicide bombings escalating things to that level would produce. Doesn’t seem like the preferable option when such an escalation is unnecessary the first place? Surely its more rational to want to keep people on your side if they dislike your enemy anyway?
    As I understand it, Japan surrendered in WWII because they did not think it possible to win in the face of nuclear weapons (and perhaps large-scale firebombings?).

    One could not significantly hurt terrorists with the use of large-scale bombings and/or nuclear weapons.

    In fact, I would think rage among those affected against whoever used such methods would only increase terrorists’ numbers and support.
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    As I understand it, Japan surrendered in WWII because they did not think it possible to win in the face of nuclear weapons (and perhaps large-scale firebombings?).

    One could not significantly hurt terrorists with the use of large-scale bombings and/or nuclear weapons.

    In fact, I would think rage among those affected against whoever used such methods would only increase terrorists’ numbers and support.
    Ive still yet to see what would be so bad about cooperating with the Yemenise. If someone wants to cooperate, then dont piss them off.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Ive still yet to see what would be so bad about cooperating with the Yemenise. If someone wants to cooperate, then dont piss them off.
    From the sounds of the original article link, the military strikes under consideration would be in support of Yemen efforts, or something.
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. As far as warfare goes. No, as far as Bush goes.
    Well, this is your opinion and I assume it is based on your experiences. I have another and I assure you that it is based on my experiences. Nothing we have done since 9/11 should have cost so much and most of the dead would still be alive had they done things correctly. But the path was always going to be our destination. It was only a matter of time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    if you're talking about oil, and it has become this important, I suggest we find something else. We don't own the ME. And if we think we do, OBL is right about us.
    Who said we own the Middle East? Last I checked we paid trillions of dollars for oil over the last 70 or so years. And until somebody finds a way to replace oil with something else, oil is the answer to all the world's oil based needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But you cannot beat King Cong but punching out Fay Wray. Al Qaeda doesn't care what we do to Iraq. But they can use Iraq to hurt us. Same with Afghanistan or any other nation you can invade, bomb, attack. You simply can't defeat them by beating up on someone else.
    Iraq hasn't hurt us. We can always come home (which we are proving to do). Afghanistan will always be across the Atlantic, which makes it more of a European problem than ours. But I don't know what you mean about punching Fay Wray instead of King Kong. I know what you are saying, but I believe you are wrong. We have beat Al-Queda to a pulp in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. Afghanistan and Iraq is not the only battle grounds. Beyond the military deployments to address dug in areas, the CIA and local governmnents have been active too. Their banking systems have been wrecked. Aside from Saddam Hussein, how have we not addressed King Kong? Hussein was merely a 12 year pain in the ass we ended. Need I remind you that even Bin Laden mentioned our mission to maintain the dictator as a justification for 9/11? He was right about that one.

    I mean are we supposed to be Americans or Europeans? I, for one, am tired of belonging to a camp that seeks the Cold War and prior imperialisms as prescription for global order.

    What we need to get through our think skulls is that nation building is pointless and stupid. Killing our enemies does not mean that we have to stick around to take care of those who won't even take care of themselves.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    So you think you can just bomb the entire region into submission? Good with that
    The entire region? No. Just those that deserve it and when they deserve it. If they allow their people to hide behind the idea that their terror is an act for God or true Islam then they are responsible for them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Al-Qaeda supporters are hardly a majority in the region. But generally if you bomb someones country they will perceive you as an enemy (people are strange like that) how is making additional enemies in your interests? Alot of these people hate Al-Qaeda. Why alienate them?
    They alienate themselves and already percieve us as that enemy. Al-Queda is not the entirely of their fanaticism. There are many organizations throughout the region and they receive moral and financial support from millions throughout the region.

    Americans generally hate the KKK organizations. We don't allow them to do much.

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