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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This specific instance, not really military. However, terrorism may well be both and not just one or the other. It really depends on any specific circumstance.
    No it doesn't. What's the difference? If he had blown the plane up would we involve the police or the military for matters that originiate abroad? We have a CIA and an FBI for a reason. They have been defining their activity as a war for a very long time. We are the only fools that pretend it is not and that every incident is a single incident in which nothing is connected. Well how many single incidents does it take?

    But let's just say that it is a police matter and that many of them are. When do we send over the FBI to start investigating? Or do we rely on the local governments who largely look away as long as their fanatic organizations project violence elsewhere?

    Every single terrorist attack or attempt needs to be followed up with such a devistating attack that even our allies cringe. These are not children. This is not a "time out" solution. Europe's in ability or desire to address it when it was only bothering them has encouraged its growth. Today, it seeks to cross the ocean to our shores. We used to be safe from this (considering that Americans ignored dead Americans in uniforms abroad of course). It is getting worse.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-01-10 at 08:18 PM.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
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    Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot - Times Online

    Here we go again, Obama has to gather in all the intelligence then of course he will need the advice of Carter & Kerry, by the time he actually gets around to doing something it will probably be time to install his successor.
    Why not just cooperate with the Yemenise in taking these people out like any other country in the world would?

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Why not just cooperate with the Yemenise in taking these people out like any other country in the world would?
    Providing the U.S. with targets is all they need to do. "Just" allowing the Yemenise to handle it tells the rest of the fanatic based in the region nothing. More proactivity before 9/11 may have altered a lot.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-01-10 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No it doesn't. What's the difference? If he had blown the plane up would we involve the police or the military for matters that originiate abroad? We have a CIA and an FBI for a reason. They have been defining their activity as a war for a very long time. We are the only fools that pretend it is not and that every incident is a single incident in which nothing is connected. Well how many single incidents does it take?

    But let's just say that it is a police matter and that many of them are. When do we send over the FBI to start investigating? Or do we rely on the local governments who largely look away as long as their fanatic organizations project violence elsewhere?

    Every single terrorist attack or attempt needs to be followed up with such a devistating attack that even our allies cringe. These are not children. This is not a "time out" solution. Europe's in ability or desire to address it when it was only bothering them has encouraged its growth. Today, it seeks to cross the ocean to our shores. We used to be safe from this (considering that Americans ignored dead Americans in uniforms abroad of course). It is getting worse.
    The military best fights other nations. Things like the mob and Al Qaeda less so. Even if we destroyed ever country a terrorist ever came from, we would not defeat the terrorist groups for the simply reason, they don't represent the that country, are not working for that country, are not under the control of that country. It is flawed logic to connect the two.

    No country has attacked us. Neither Afghanistan or Iraq attacked us. And our invading those countries have not lessened the danger at all. Failure to recognize the problem for what it is, sends us down the wrong path. And that is exactly the error Bush made made.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Providing the U.S. with targets is all they need to do. "Just" allowing the Yemenise to handle it tells the rest of the fanatic based in the region nothing.
    And if the U.S bombed unilaterally that would help the fanatics alot more. The U.S is already deeply unpopular across the region and thats not just among fanatics. Worsening the situation is not in its interests, however it is in the interests of Bin-Laden and the like.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 01-01-10 at 08:39 PM.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The military best fights other nations. Things like the mob and Al Qaeda less so. Even if we destroyed ever country a terrorist ever came from, we would not defeat the terrorist groups for the simply reason, they don't represent the that country, are not working for that country, are not under the control of that country. It is flawed logic to connect the two.

    No country has attacked us. Neither Afghanistan or Iraq attacked us. And our invading those countries have not lessened the danger at all. Failure to recognize the problem for what it is, sends us down the wrong path. And that is exactly the error Bush made made.
    Welcome to the 21st century of warfare. No "country" will ever be our military enemy again unless they are stupid. The military best fights when it has a clear enemy. And the military has proved time and again to be able to adapt. It is not the military that can't figure this out. And "Bush's path" was no mistake. The mistake is how people still insist that we exist within the rules of the Cold War and pre-Cold War.

    When an entire region's importance hinges on the world's most precious energy source and is on a path to hell... and its reaction is to export terror...our enemy becomes more than just a single nation's flag or military uniform.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Welcome to the 21st century of warfare. No "country" will ever be our military enemy again unless they are stupid. The military best fights when it has a clear enemy. And the military has proved time and again to be able to adapt. It is not the military that can't figure this out. And "Bush's path" was no mistake. The mistake is how people still insist that we exist within the rules of the Cold War and pre-Cold War.

    When an entire region's importance hinges on the world's most precious energy source and is on a path to hell... and its reaction is to export terror...our enemy becomes more than just a single nation's flag or military uniform.
    Maybe. As far as warfare goes. No, as far as Bush goes.

    if you're talking about oil, and it has become this important, I suggest we find something else. We don't own the ME. And if we think we do, OBL is right about us.

    But you cannot beat King Cong but punching out Fay Wray. Al Qaeda doesn't care what we do to Iraq. But they can use Iraq to hurt us. Same with Afghanistan or any other nation you can invade, bomb, attack. You simply can't defeat them by beating up on someone else.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    And if the U.S bombed unilaterally that would help the fanatics alot more. The U.S is already deeply unpopular across the region and thats not just among fanatics. Worsening the situation is not in its interests, however it is in the interests of Bin-Laden and the like.
    I find cowardice in assuming that proper retaliation will please Bin-Laden...and the like. I also find it senseless to argue about unilateralism in a world full of unilateral activity. I guess it takes France and Germany to be onboard to make it non-unilateral? This argument that America acted unilaterally with Iraq was always satuid considering that it was no where near alone. Of course...that's me.

    The anti-Americanism that exists across the region was rooted long before Amerca even messed with Iran thanks to Qutb. I am not interested in America's popularity when it comes to the rest of the world. It is because we placate to popularity that we find ourselves constantly dealing with issues that we should have already dealt with. I do not care that toppling a dictator will encourage the slaughter of Muslims by other Muslims. I do not care that Muslims find themselves without pride because the rest of the world is having to deal with their terrorist creations.

    Until, Muslims decide that enough is enough and deal with their wrecked culture once and for all, they will have to contend with American bombs. Civilizations all over the world were colonized by Europeans and many of those colonies have become stong independant nations that are a part of the international stage. India? China? The U.S.? Egypt? That's off the top of my head, but you know there are more. Considering this, the Middle East has no excuse other than their culture. Trillions of dollars have flooded this region for oil, yet we are accused of stealing it. It is 2010 and this region can't even produce a car for the world's needs. Not one sense of real contribution towards the globe's prosperity and growth. I am a firm believer that much of their views towards the West, especially America, is based on long gone European imperialism and our success.

    I've become a huge fan of what the British used to call..."punitive strikes."

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I've become a huge fan of what the British used to call..."punitive strikes."
    Such as what British historian John Keegan said in September 2001:
    "Efforts to occupy and rule [Afghanistan] usually ended in disaster. But straightforward punitive expeditions ... were successful on more than one occasion.

    It should be remembered that, in 1878, the British did succeed in bringing the Afghans to heel [with a punitive expedition]. Lord Roberts' march from 'Kabul to Kandahar' was one of [Queen] Victoria's most celebrated wars. The Russians, moreover, foolishly did not try to punish rogue Afghans, as Roberts did, but to rule the country. Since Afghanistan is ungovernable, the failure of their efforts was predictable ...

    America should not seek to change the regime, but simply to find and kill the terrorists. It should do so without pity."

    Clueless into Kabul - Michael Scheuer - The American Interest Magazine

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Such as what British historian John Keegan said in September 2001:
    "Efforts to occupy and rule [Afghanistan] usually ended in disaster. But straightforward punitive expeditions ... were successful on more than one occasion.

    It should be remembered that, in 1878, the British did succeed in bringing the Afghans to heel [with a punitive expedition]. Lord Roberts' march from 'Kabul to Kandahar' was one of [Queen] Victoria's most celebrated wars. The Russians, moreover, foolishly did not try to punish rogue Afghans, as Roberts did, but to rule the country. Since Afghanistan is ungovernable, the failure of their efforts was predictable ...

    America should not seek to change the regime, but simply to find and kill the terrorists. It should do so without pity."

    Clueless into Kabul - Michael Scheuer - The American Interest Magazine
    So, don't invade. Don't nation build. Just bomb?

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