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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    How you can you say it's unfounded when suspects in criminal court have more rights than do enemy combatants in military courts? Setting all other differences, as we just saw the underwear bomber attained a lawyer and promptly accepted his right to remain silent.
    Rights protect the innocent. And as there are likely still a few innocent, this is a good thing. And as I understand it, the underwear bomber gave information. There is no reason to think we'd have gotten more.

    None of this relates to anything happening today apart from targeting people all over the world.

    We are at war. The airliner is the battlefield. Your thinking is outdated and a relic of last century which only serves to lessen our nation and elevate our enemies.
    I find it odd that someone using thinking as old as WWII would consider my thinking outdated. But, be that as it may, the "targeting people all over the world" is an important aspect. And as we can't be sure everyone they get is guilty, and an important American tenet is that all are considered innocent until proven guilty, due process is important.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    American tenet is that all are considered innocent until proven guilty, due process is important.
    Never before in American history has that tenet been applied to enemy combatants in a time of war.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not sure that is true. I see nothing that has to hinder anything. I think that is more an unfounded concern.

    And if this was a war with a nation, in which we put people in POW camps and release them in a few years, I might agree. But as we're picking up people not on the battlefield, but all over the world and under questionable conditions, to be held indefinitely, well, we need something with real due process.
    Is this historically the way the US has conducted itself prior to 9/11? Since the beginning of our nation, have we been putting enemy combatants on trial in US courts during a war.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Is this historically the way the US has conducted itself prior to 9/11? Since the beginning of our nation, have we been putting enemy combatants on trial in US courts during a war.
    This action on the part of Obama is indefensible and most know it. There is no justification for bringing enemy combatants into the U.S. Court System and give them U.S. Constitutional Rights. The majority in this country have stated as such yet once again the Obama Administration is going against the will of the people.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This action on the part of Obama is indefensible and most know it. There is no justification for bringing enemy combatants into the U.S. Court System and give them U.S. Constitutional Rights. The majority in this country have stated as such yet once again the Obama Administration is going against the will of the people.
    So much for republican government.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    and an important American tenet is that all are considered innocent until proven guilty, due process is important.
    If it's an important American tenet, it would have precedence, give us an example, there must be hundreds if not thousands. One will do. Enemy combatants captured abroad given due process.

    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    If it's an important American tenet, it would have precedence, give us an example, there must be hundreds if not thousands. One will do. Enemy combatants captured abroad given due process.

    Show me any case in history like this one? Any will do.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Never before in American history has that tenet been applied to enemy combatants in a time of war.
    Again, those picked up off the street aren't really enemy combatants. It is just a lazy term misused by too many. Enemy combatants have to actually be enemy combatants. A person picked up in Canada, on a mistaken name, is not really an enemy combatant. Nor is an innocent taxi driver given to us by the enemy in Afghanistan in an effort to inside our lines. Because many incorrectly use the terms enemy combatant, they don't see the real differences and problems associated with mistakenly thinking everyone we have is an enemy combatant.

    Again, without due process, we can't know how many we hold like this. But as we do know it has happened, we have reason to believe there are more.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, those picked up off the street aren't really enemy combatants.
    Assuming you mean they have done nothing wrong. . .I never said they were enemy combatants.

    Again, without due process,
    That's what military tribunals are for, although legally we may hold them as long as we like, too.
    Last edited by ScummyD; 01-07-10 at 03:22 AM.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Assuming you mean they have done nothing wrong. . .I never said they were enemy combatants.
    How do you know one from the other without due process. We've seen people got it wrong and the consequences were deadly.


    That's what military tribunals are for, although legally we may hold them as long as we like, too.
    Again,hold the innocent for as long we like. I'm sure the innocent appreciate that. And as we saw, the tribunals were lacking. Slow, and often after damage was done (deaths and torture) to innocent people. Again, this is not your grandfathers war.

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