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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

  1. #271
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is because the vast majority of attacks are perpetrated by Muslims.

    No fallacy in that.

    I think Americans are more likely to not be PC and tell the truth of the situation.

    Your reasoning is flawed and no excuse for trying to equate Christians with terrorist attacks.
    Spoken like someone who does not understand either logic or statistics.

    First, how do you calculate "the vast majority of attacks", define it properly and show me where you found your number or how you came to that conclusion.

    Secondly, correlation is not causation. Even if (a big if) it is true that "the vast majority of attacks are perpetrated by Muslims", it doesn't necessarily follow that the religion Islam is the cause. Have you ever looked at other variables for the violence: poverty, conflict, lack of job (life) opportunities, social life etc? The North Irish catholics killed plenty of people, why do people not jump to the conclusion that Christianity (or the Irish gene) causes violence? Perhaps because most Christian (or Irish) will never commit violence in their life? Out of 1 billion or so Muslim, most will never commit violence in their life, why is that if Islam is the religion of violence? So the flawed reasonings in on the part of those who see the prominence of Muslim terrorists in the media right now (or "in recent decades"), and jump from there to flimsy conclusions Islam as a religion. That is lazy reasonings and faulty logic.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe it is beyond you as I answered it a second time in the post you are responding to. What does Ron White say you can't fix?
    Neutered cats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As I said in the first answer, why not invade all such countries?
    Because we don't want to.

    Just because we exercise choice and discretion in the matter does not imply that such acts are unjustified when we do choose to do them.

  3. #273
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    What a load of BS!
    You mean the liberals just want to destroy the US and don't care too much if it boosts their control of the population, too?

  4. #274
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Spoken like someone who does not understand either logic or statistics.
    Ahhh a personal attack. Not a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    First, how do you calculate "the vast majority of attacks", define it properly and show me where you found your number or how you came to that conclusion.
    I guess the news every day is not enough? You need statistics? And you say I don't understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Secondly, correlation is not causation. Even if (a big if) it is true that "the vast majority of attacks are perpetrated by Muslims", it doesn't necessarily follow that the religion Islam is the cause.
    Please point out where I said the religion is the cause? I never said any such thing.

    So your comment above has nothing to do with what I said or it's meaning.

    Islam, is not the only cause, but it does contribute. Denying this is just ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Have you ever looked at other variables for the violence: poverty, conflict, lack of job (life) opportunities, social life etc? The North Irish catholics killed plenty of people, why do people not jump to the conclusion that Christianity (or the Irish gene) causes violence? Perhaps because most Christian (or Irish) will never commit violence in their life? Out of 1 billion or so Muslim, most will never commit violence in their life, why is that if Islam is the religion of violence? So the flawed reasonings in on the part of those who see the prominence of Muslim terrorists in the media right now (or "in recent decades"), and jump from there to flimsy conclusions Islam as a religion. That is lazy reasonings and faulty logic.
    Again this has nothing at all to do with my point.

    It does not change the FACT that terrorism is perpetuated by Muslims in the majority of cases. It does not change the fact that trying to compare Christianity to Islam (in the context of your initial statement) is in itself ridicules.

    Now if you are finished with your personal attacks and fallacy filled rant?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-05-10 at 01:50 PM.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #275
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Because if removing "a gangster strongman from a position of supreme leadership of a country with significant military potential" is all the justification you need to invade a country, then probably half the countries in the world (but particularly the resource rich ones) are vulnerable to invasions by superpowers like the US or China.
    No.

    China, a country run by strongmen and gangsters (what are euphemistically called "socialists"), has no moral authority to do any such displacement.

    Also, do you believe those countries aren't vulnerable to a morally justifiable invasion by the US? Because by my standards, they are, the only issue is the answer to the "what's in it for us?" and "how much will this cost us?" questions that we need to answer for ourselves before we take action. That's it.

    We get to choose our own battles.

    In some ways the US is still a free country.

    Dig?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What if China decides to invade Venezuela because she "thinks" that Chavez "a gangster strongman from a position of supreme leadership of a country with significant military potential"?
    Then China, being a strongman country itself, is wrong. Also, as the big dog on the planet, the US gets to decide if we should allow that, in our own assessment of our own interests.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you can't call someone guilty if you can't prove their guilt.
    Since they're not charged with crimes, but instead are enemy combatants captured on the battlefield, their "guilt" is irrelevant.

    Fact of the matter is that they're assets available for our consumption, and we should work assiduously to drain those assets of all valuable information in the most expeditious manner possible to maximize our ability to damage the enemy and our ability to protect our own people.

    In case you're wondering, I'm referring to "torturing" those people to learn what they know.

    They're enemies, not poor little puppies. Enemies with the demonstrated intent to kill us. They don't deserve mercy or consideration.

  7. #277
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley
    And you can't call someone guilty if you can't prove their guilt.
    Yeah, Obama just executes them on the spot in foreign lands with drones, but if they set foot here he hands them a lawyer.

    Madness. The man is like a small child without the slightest clue what the hell he is doing.

  8. #278
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Yeah, Obama just executes them on the spot in foreign lands with drones, but if they set foot here he hands them a lawyer.

    Madness. The man is like a small child without the slightest clue what the hell he is doing.
    Not that fond of the drones and the bombing for a few reasons. And the same reasons why it was wrong when Bush did it, it's wrong with Obama. But if you have people in custody, especially those just picked up off the street, it is proper to have due process. And if you believe in our system, there's no reason to fear it.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Since they're not charged with crimes, but instead are enemy combatants captured on the battlefield, their "guilt" is irrelevant.

    Fact of the matter is that they're assets available for our consumption, and we should work assiduously to drain those assets of all valuable information in the most expeditious manner possible to maximize our ability to damage the enemy and our ability to protect our own people.

    In case you're wondering, I'm referring to "torturing" those people to learn what they know.

    They're enemies, not poor little puppies. Enemies with the demonstrated intent to kill us. They don't deserve mercy or consideration.
    As pointed out many times, not all were captured on any battle field. They were turned, picked up in other countries, and on a least a few occasions, innocents given to us by our enemies to gain favor.

    And they don't have to be poor puppies for us to follow the law and stay true to our values. As torture is mostly ineffective, the only reason to use it would be to get confessions (and even the innocent will confess) or to enact revenge, which isn't justice.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not that fond of the drones and the bombing for a few reasons. And the same reasons why it was wrong when Bush did it, it's wrong with Obama. But if you have people in custody, especially those just picked up off the street, it is proper to have due process. And if you believe in our system, there's no reason to fear it.
    The intricacies of domestic do not favor its use when dealing with enemy combatants and serve to hamper our efforts to defend ourselves, hence throughout our history domestic law has not been used to prosecute wars.

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