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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    We let him take power? Where do you get this stuff?
    Well, since we didn't interfere in his taking over Iraq, we must have let him do it. Of course, preventing him from doing so would have been like, you know, interfering in the internal politics of a sovereign nation and stuff, you know, like the socialists complain about us doing when we were helping the Nicaraguans overthrow Socialist Dictator Ortega, but hey, wait, have you uncovered one of the many Lying Their Fat Asses Off Self-Contradictions of the Liberals?

    Why, golllleeee, so you have!

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    [quote=Scarecrow Akhbar;1058462635]
    Should we do what, ignore the question asked of you and pretend you answered it.

    Again.

    What justification is required for a democratic republic to intervene and removed a gangster strongman from a position of supreme leadership of a country with significant military potential?

    Answer the question.
    It's a really stupid question, and I did answer it. But I'll expand. We have no right to invade any country for that reason. Nor did any of your leaders suggest we should. Bush didn't either BTW. That's why he set about making up reasons. Invasion should either stop on going genocide or be done to prevent an imminent threat. Neither of those conditions existed in 2003.


    Sure did.

    Explain what our advantages were at the time. Don't pretend we're as ignorant as the anti-war anti-American socialists you hang out with.
    Our advantages? Based on your question, who cares? Are you saying we have to stop strongmen unless it benefits us not to? Well, there you go. Be moral unless we have reason not to. Now that's a winning argument.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Well, since we didn't interfere in his taking over Iraq, we must have let him do it. Of course, preventing him from doing so would have been like, you know, interfering in the internal politics of a sovereign nation and stuff, you know, like the socialists complain about us doing when we were helping the Nicaraguans overthrow Socialist Dictator Ortega, but hey, wait, have you uncovered one of the many Lying Their Fat Asses Off Self-Contradictions of the Liberals?

    Why, golllleeee, so you have!
    Exactly, which is what you suggest we have the right to do in your question.

  4. #234
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    As Boo has already pointed out you don't seem to understand the difference between an analyst like Scheuer and a decision maker like Clinton.
    But I do understand the similarities. Both of these incompetents missed the boat on al-Qaeda, reality can't be defined any differently.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not in favor of the surge.
    Claimed you were on Ws.

    In the end he wants us out of there, but to do that he must hurt us. He can't any other way. He needs us closer, as other attacks won't accomplish anything.
    No...wrong. In the beginning he didn't want us there, our presence itself was enough for him to declare war, our presence in the Arabian peninsula of which Iraq was the primary example. I'm waiting for proof of your guesses, here, my 1998 Fatwa spelling out what I'm saying here already crystal clear. OBL wanted us nowhere near Iraq and considered our continued occupation immoral.

    Again, a plan B. Not his desired plan, but he was left with little else at the time, so it was a Christmas gift.
    This was Scheuer's guess, this gift, again, if you could just show Osama saying this, I might believe you. As it is, I don't, this is a ridiculous guess on your part with nothing of substance to link to.

    And he clearly benefited.
    Al-Qaeda now known to have taken a frightful defeat and in a most upsetting of angles...Sunni Iraqis(as al-Qaeda is Sunni), took up arms paid for by Americans and fought al-Qaeda tenaciously. Many of his leadership killed, turned away by his own, eventually giving up on Iraq and refocusing on Afghanistan...al-qaeda received an arse whoopin in Iraq. It also gave Americans and allied forces a good model for defeating insurgencies, saw Petreaus promoted, saw Obama take the same tactic in Afghansitan.

    Again, his original plan was to have us in Afghanistan. Iraq was the only option he had left at the time, and it was a gift.
    Please quote Osama as ever having said this, otherwise, it's your guess.

    SO, your quote doesn't really address that. It may be something he didn't want, but it was better than the alternative.
    It was clearly something he didn't want. That is so crystal clear, us actually invading no Xmas gift, it would have been should we have let you or your liberal party make decisions, thank God, we didn;t.

    And OBL's goals were met there.
    Please link to the book, source, whatever listing these goals. Show me anything that shows goals were met by OBL. The goals that were set...were Bush's. And he suceeded. Saddam dead. A self-detemrining government in its place. Now having affect on the entire ME and especially Iran. The region stabilized, oil traffic and interstate commerce rolling through the unthreatened Hormuz scorched over and watched daily by our 5th fleet.

    Mission Accomplished!
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  6. #236
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    You're quite welcome.

    Oh wait, you're serious... aren't you?

    I never said he "rushed" into Iraq.
    I never said YOU said he rushed into it.

    I stated that what you stated in your response to Glinda's post was rather pointless, because Glinda's point was rather pointless, because she was responding to my post concernings someones statements about Bush making the decision to invade Iraq to quickly.

    See, sometimes it helps to read a thread before you jump in and just start on your normal Bush Bashing Bandwagon before actually realizing if its pertinent to what's being talked about or not.

    I do support that this was one of his highest desires, along with his and Cheney's Patriot Act. (Ever wonder how they got that written up so soon after 9/11? Bush signed this into law on October 26, 2001, a mere 45 days after 9/11. Ever hear of a bill getting thru Congress so fast? Hmmm, how did they do that? And don't forget how Bush "instructed" congress to not read it first!)


    The Patriot Act is entirely a different subject. Take your Bush Bashing Baiting elsewhere rather than trying to derail this like you do so routinely.

    I never said it wasn't his desire. I don't rightly care if its his desire or not. That's not what my post, of which Glinda responded to and led to your response, was not dealing with his DESIRE. It was dealing with the ACTION of actually taking military action.

    Zyphlin, if you have evidence, any evidence at all, that Bush did not want to go to war with Iraq all along then please, show it.
    Why the hell should I have such evidence? Why the hell should I care about such evidence for the purpose of this thread. Stop putting words in my mouth, its embarassing how poor you are at it. Please highlight where I've argued for certainty that Bush didn't want to go into Iraq. I will say it again, once more, in big bold letters and apart from everythign else so you can fully get it...

    My point was refuting UtahBills implication that Bush rushed into the invasion Iraq after 9/11.

    It wasn't that he desired it before then. It wasn't that he talked about it before then. It wasn't that he didn't have vivid dreams about it while on LSD at a frat party he crashed. It was that it wasn't a decision that was rushed into after 9/11 happened.

    Now, unless you can provide me some kind of proof positive evidence that we somehow magically invaded Iraq 2 years PRIOR to actually invading Iraq, all you're doing is Bush Bashing because you can't counter my actual point and thus have to latch onto Glinda's strawman.

    Lacking any such evidence, I think I'll stick with all the proof that clearly shows Bush certainly DID want to invade Iraq all along.
    Wonderful. I don't even have to get into the questionable content of your "proof" because I refuse to let you derail yet another thread with your Bush Bashing. The only person talking about whether or not Bush desired it or not originally was Glinda, who created the Strawman because of her overwhelming urge to try to score pathetic political points and her inability to do such with my actual POINT so she had to take half a sentence out of context to slide her Bush Bashing tangent into this thread.

    He lied to all of us. He used the biggest attack on our country as an excuse to play his selfish rich boy game. The fact that so many lemmings followed him off his cliff is absolutely dumbfounding.
    Yawn, sorry, I've read enough of your tired worthless Bush Bashing trash to be beyond caring about your pathetic theatrics. Its not on topic, its not in any way shape or form countering the point I've ACTUALLY made, not the one Glinda is creating out of thin air for me, and its just your typical hatred showing through. Continue your perterbed ranting, I'm not feeding your derailing behavior any further beyond this post unless you want to address what I actually said, not what some other poster contorted my statement to mean so that she could feel like she won.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
    Thanks for conceding. That would've been much easier than starting your strawman in the first place as an excuse to just lob some bush bashing into the thread and attempt to derail it.

  8. #238
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I never said YOU said he rushed into it.

    I stated that what you stated in your response to Glinda's post was rather pointless, because Glinda's point was rather pointless, because she was responding to my post concernings someones statements about Bush making the decision to invade Iraq to quickly.

    See, sometimes it helps to read a thread before you jump in and just start on your normal Bush Bashing Bandwagon before actually realizing if its pertinent to what's being talked about or not.





    The Patriot Act is entirely a different subject. Take your Bush Bashing Baiting elsewhere rather than trying to derail this like you do so routinely.

    I never said it wasn't his desire. I don't rightly care if its his desire or not. That's not what my post, of which Glinda responded to and led to your response, was not dealing with his DESIRE. It was dealing with the ACTION of actually taking military action.



    Why the hell should I have such evidence? Why the hell should I care about such evidence for the purpose of this thread. Stop putting words in my mouth, its embarassing how poor you are at it. Please highlight where I've argued for certainty that Bush didn't want to go into Iraq. I will say it again, once more, in big bold letters and apart from everythign else so you can fully get it...

    My point was refuting UtahBills implication that Bush rushed into the invasion Iraq after 9/11.

    It wasn't that he desired it before then. It wasn't that he talked about it before then. It wasn't that he didn't have vivid dreams about it while on LSD at a frat party he crashed. It was that it wasn't a decision that was rushed into after 9/11 happened.

    Now, unless you can provide me some kind of proof positive evidence that we somehow magically invaded Iraq 2 years PRIOR to actually invading Iraq, all you're doing is Bush Bashing because you can't counter my actual point and thus have to latch onto Glinda's strawman.



    Wonderful. I don't even have to get into the questionable content of your "proof" because I refuse to let you derail yet another thread with your Bush Bashing. The only person talking about whether or not Bush desired it or not originally was Glinda, who created the Strawman because of her overwhelming urge to try to score pathetic political points and her inability to do such with my actual POINT so she had to take half a sentence out of context to slide her Bush Bashing tangent into this thread.



    Yawn, sorry, I've read enough of your tired worthless Bush Bashing trash to be beyond caring about your pathetic theatrics. Its not on topic, its not in any way shape or form countering the point I've ACTUALLY made, not the one Glinda is creating out of thin air for me, and its just your typical hatred showing through. Continue your perterbed ranting, I'm not feeding your derailing behavior any further beyond this post unless you want to address what I actually said, not what some other poster contorted my statement to mean so that she could feel like she won.
    Lookit 'im dance! Hee hee heeee!

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thanks for conceding. That would've been much easier than starting your strawman in the first place as an excuse to just lob some bush bashing into the thread and attempt to derail it.
    Hey pal, you brought it up, but I understand. * pats Zyph's poor throbbing haid *

    It's tough to admit you're making a colossal fool of yourself.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's a really stupid question, and I did answer it.
    Can you point to the post that actually contained the answer then? I've read every post visible and you haven't answered it, so maybe you could try not posting in invisible type?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But I'll expand. We have no right to invade any country for that reason.
    Explain the basis of power of the totalitarian dictator and from whence his "right" to hold power derives.

    No, don't bother.

    Since the totalitarian dictator takes his throne by force at gunpoint, anyone with the ability to use force to displace him has an equal right to do so if they wish. Ergo, if the United States can overthrow a dictator by force of arms, we have a right to do so greater than the dictator's right to retain that throne, since the dictator himself established the foundation of his authority upon the dictum that Might Makes Right.

    Welcome to the real world. We have the "right" to overthrow any totalitarian dictator we wish to bump off, by their own example. That we choose to refrain from doing so is merely indicative of our own right to choose to act in our own interests.

    You've never understood the proper application of power to politics and diplomacy, have you?

    So, to provide the answer to the question you dodged, is that the dictator himself, in this case Saddam Hussein, provided all the justification we needed to overthrow him at the time of our choosing.

    Just in case you didn't notice, the United States was founded upon a profound disprespect for kings and tyrants.

    Since I'm not a socialist, I still don't respect kings or tyrants.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 01-04-10 at 06:37 PM.

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