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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

  1. #221
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    How about going on on 9/12/96 and getting him Michael??!! So Dr. Scheuer, let me get this straight. Your solution...given you're the ex desk chief for the CIA...is to go after him AFTER 9-11?

    For the love of God?
    As Boo has already pointed out you don't seem to understand the difference between an analyst like Scheuer and a decision maker like Clinton.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    "The fact of the matter?"

    There's no way of empirically verifying that liberals are identifiable in that way or that doing so would make them liars, which makes his DOUBLE HYPERBOLE and in all probability a lie.
    Yes, it's probably something. It's probably not a lie, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Contested elections occur all the time, at county, state, and federal levels of government,
    We're not discussing a contested election. With Franken we're discussing an election in which some precincts reported more votes for Franken than there were registered voters.

    That's called "fraud", if you're honest. I'm honest, I call it fraud. You refuse to call it fraud. Explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    What happened in Florida was a completely differently miscalculation,
    Yes, indeed. Gore calculated that he could steal the election and Bush calculated that he wasn't going to give up. Since the fact that Gore had fewer votes than Bush in Floriduh cannot be disputed, you people want to play games with the truth instead.

    Bush got more votes in Floriduh.

    Period.

    That's it.

    End of story.

    You can't deal with the facts, so you follow liberal rule #1 and lie your ass off about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The meaning of the U.S. Constitution was debated at before, during, and after its ratification, with the passages liberals use to justify their policies being cited by proto-liberals (who helped ratify the U.S. Constitution) to justify theirs.
    Right.

    The Tenth Amendment trumps "general welfare".

    Don't like it? Move to a country that isn't based on the concept of limited government, you have no place in mine.

  3. #223
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Out troops experienceing record losses in Afghansitan, wasn't this OBL's plan that Obama now eats hook, line, and sinker.
    Troops are just one part of the plan. Once we decided to nation build, he could count on more than just troops. Again, I would prefer less presence there. I'm not in favor of the surge.


    He doesn't mention Iran. His rage clearly over Iraq, he mentions it several times. You are still in error even though it's a new year.
    Does it matter (I misunderstood your reference, my error)? Again, it has little to do with today. Or 2003. Or my argument. In the end he wants us out of there, but to do that he must hurt us. He can't any other way. He needs us closer, as other attacks won't accomplish anything.

    Not disputing this. The fact is, we invaded Iraq and Osama Bin Laden clearly didn't want us anywhere near Iraq, considered it immoral. This idea is wa s Xmas gift is a guess by Scheuer and yourself and it's a wrong guess. Supposition and guesses were always your process, JD, I could read you like a book and I obviously still can.
    Again, a plan B. Not his desired plan, but he was left with little else at the time, so it was a Christmas gift. And he clearly benefited. Our own CIA declared Al Qaeda was as strong as ever. He could use Iraqis, and recruit those with no prior terrorist history, and not invest heavily in Iraq at all, and still have us bleed.



    Seems to be reasonbable isn't proof, the fatwa I linked to solid proof. Osama didn't want us in Iraq and attacked us because of it. He chortled on about the decimation and destruction. His concerns were for our presence in the ME and especially Iraq and I quote:
    Again, his original plan was to have us in Afghanistan. Iraq was the only option he had left at the time, and it was a gift. SO, your quote doesn't really address that. It may be something he didn't want, but it was better than the alternative.

    See that...ferocious war...devastation...fragmentation? He didn't want us anywhere near IRaq and considered it "using the Peninsula as a staging post."
    It's all right there in black and white, JD.
    And that is what Bush wanted to do with Iraq, I believe. But again, talk aside, Al Qaeda has invested very little in Iraq. They didn't have to. And OBL's goals were met there.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hardly. Nothing we actually had justified going in.
    Iraq was a totalitarian dictatorship whose leaders seized power at gunpoint against the will of the people.

    Explain why any justification is required to remove gangsters from positions of authority.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Iraq was a totalitarian dictatorship whose leaders seized power at gunpoint against the will of the people.

    Explain why any justification is required to remove gangsters from positions of authority.
    Should we do this with every country around the world? but let's look at what happened. We let Saddam take power. We let him brutally rule for a long time. We let him kill his own people. then, when all of that was essentially over with (the killing was at a very low ebb), then and only then we decided to bring war to the Iraqis people. MY God, why wouldn't they be thankful.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He was not doing anything in regards to invading it. Talking about it off handedly, before 9/11 even happened, is not equivilent of going into Iraq over 9/11 or even legitimately planning Iraq right after 9/11.



    Amazing, you can not only see THROUGH the internet, but you apparently see into an alternative dimension in which things happen differently than in reality. This is a rather impressive talent you have. Perhaps you should talk to FOX to see if they’ll make a reality show based around it.



    You’re trying to build a strawman right now, so I figure you’d know what it means, but apparently you don’t.

    No, you didn’t say anything about “invading”…which was exactly my point. You disproved something I didn’t say, unless you take HALF of a sentence out of context. I was talking about invading. The person I was responding to talked about “invaiding”. THAT was the discussion. THAT was the context of my statement.

    You not saying anything about “invading” wasn’t me creating a strawman, that was the entire basis for my complaint with your pathetic attempt at “debunking” me. You “debunked” half of a sentence by taking it completely out of context due to your desire to NOT address “invading”, which is directly what I WAS addressing.

    YOU created the strawman, when you tried to prove me wrong by “proving” that Bush talked about Iraq at some nebulus point prior to invading…which I never denied, I was speaking specifically about invading which was obvious in the context and if you had addressed my entire sentence.



    Not at all. Its just that you apparently are getting pissy that you and those thanking you little high-five party is being busted up due to, you know, reality and that the strawman you built up and began to wallop on was exposed as the dummy it was. Its not my fault I have to point out the context of what was said because you failed to address it at all and then immediately claimed victory…that’s yours. If you had actually dealt with what I said, instead of what you decided you had a better case against, this wouldn’t have had to happen.



    Thanks for the reassurance…but nothing pathetic about it. You’re just upset because you tried to “disprove” something I never claimed and are upset cause I called you on it.

    Which, looking at your time line above, isn't surprising. You're a rabid hyper partisan that can't see past "con" and has a world view completely twisted by ideology. You bag on about Reagan, Bush, Cheney, and Bush again and how horrible they are but of course mention nothing about Clinton's half assed efforts there or his policy of regime change that he put no bite behind and left his successors to deal with. You don't have the ability to judge things from an impartial position or through actual facts because you're more interested in scoring political points and attempting to land punches on the other side regardless of what you have to do to do so.

    I won't sit here and say the Bush Administration didn't make blunders with Iraq. I won't sit here and say that Bush was thinking about Iraq before he was elected. I won't even say that if 9/11 didn't happen he wouldn't have found a way to go in. I may not believe all of that is true, but I can see it being possible. What I will sit here and say though is that anyone trying to say that he immedietely drove us into war with Iraq after 9/11 instead of going after the true enemies, the Saudis, is grossly mistaken and completely factually incorrect and will argue that till kingdom come, which is what I've done here. Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 to attack Iraq. I don't care what definition you want to use, there's none that equates 2 years to almost immedietely.
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    4500 Americans, not to mention coalition forces, 100,000 civilians, and billions of dollars, for what?
    A democratic islamic republic more or less friendly to the United States in the midst of fanatic islamic dictatorships.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Should we do this with every country around the world? but let's look at what happened. We let Saddam take power. We let him brutally rule for a long time. We let him kill his own people. then, when all of that was essentially over with (the killing was at a very low ebb), then and only then we decided to bring war to the Iraqis people. MY God, why wouldn't they be thankful.
    We let him take power? Where do you get this stuff?

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Should we do this with every country around the world?
    Should we do what, ignore the question asked of you and pretend you answered it.

    Again.

    What justification is required for a democratic republic to intervene and removed a gangster strongman from a position of supreme leadership of a country with significant military potential?

    Answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    but let's look at what happened. We let Saddam take power. We let him brutally rule for a long time.
    Sure did.

    Explain what our advantages were at the time. Don't pretend we're as ignorant as the anti-war anti-American socialists you hang out with.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Saying none would be an absolute. It would only take one to make it false. I'm saying very few that weren't either Iraqis or people not associated with any terrorist group prior to coming to Iraq. This means our enemy invested very little in Iraq and we were never really fighting them.

    As for OBL's rhetoric, he wants to keep us tied up there. What else would he say. If he really wanted us gone, he have supported Bush. That would have made people think about voting for someone else. He have it peaceful there so we might leave. Instead, he plays us for suckers, realizes to few think it through. Manipulates useful idiots with just a few words.
    Actually what OBL did was take advantage of people like you by convincing you that Bush was wrong. Al Qaeda has all the time in the world and they are benefiting today because of the person in the WH. You and others like you using your freedom of speech provided exactly what OBL wanted a divided country and a country that turned away from the war against radical Islam by putting Obama in the WH.

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