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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

  1. #201
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is you that continues to believe it was a mistake.
    Based on the information available at the time and the threat connected to that information, going after Iraq was absolutely the right thing to do.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    [quote=Charles Martel;1058462038]
    Wanted us in Afghanistan...correct. Where Obama has just sent 100,000 more troops, does this 'goal' of Osama's..of wanting to hurt us, isn't Obama then falling right into Osama's hands?

    Secondly...and Conservative, this is where Boo's argument disintegrates....did Bush's invasion of Iraq "remove us from Islamic lands?" Did it lessen influence on Islamic lands? How could this be a Christmas gift if he wanted us out of Iraq?

    I mean his entire 1998 Fatwa declaring war against the US is about Iraq, he HATED the fact that we were in Iraq, this idea is was a Christmas gift giving them somewhere to attack us, al-Qaeda wasn't in Iraq! They already had a plethora of arenas to attack us, we were already in Iraq flying no fly zones, already in Yemen, the Gulf States, steaming in and out of the Strait of Hormuz, remember...it was our presence in the ME at all Osama was offended by, obviously al-Qaeda already had gifts to attack, both US military and embassy/civilian targets.
    It continues the error, but most the damage is already done. You being silly here doesn't help advance the discussion. He didn't declare the Fatwa in 98 over Iraq and no one claims he did. Believe it or not, something can already be in play and you can still affect it either positively or negatively. You can do things that help or hurt, that improve or worsen. You can be smart or stupid.

    We were already in Iraq and...can you give us proof this was what he wanted? Do you have his writings or is this Scheuer's guess? In other words, does Osama, through words to his own or us, mention this strategy? At all?
    I did find something long ago. Not sure I want to look for it again. When I get back to my other computer, I'll see if I still have it.

    Osama also preferred we leave Iraq alone.
    As Afghanistan didn't work out as he hoped, it seems to have been a reasonable plan B for him.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Based on the information available at the time and the threat connected to that information, going after Iraq was absolutely the right thing to do.
    Hardly. Nothing we actually had justified going in.

  4. #204
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Based on the information available at the time and the threat connected to that information, going after Iraq was absolutely the right thing to do.
    Not according to the anti Bush crowd who ignore any threat until that threat actually turns into action. Bill Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998 which supported regime change and gave the reasons for it. Most here haven't a clue nor any interest in reading that Act. They will instead point to the provision in that act which did not support military action at that time. They then ignore the resolution passed by Congress which did authorize military action. The underlying issue in both are the reasons which those against the war totally and completely ignore.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is you that continues to believe it was a mistake. the fact that we weren't attacked for the remainder of the year and the fact that actual al Qaeda were killed in Iraq cannot be refuted. Attacking and killing terrorists is never a mistake.
    Are you talking about Iraqis who claimed the name Al Qaeda in order to get some support? Or the foreign element, small as it was, who mostly had no connections to any terrorist organization prior to going into Iraq? If you manufacture some to kill, while not really attacking the people who attacked you, it's a mistake.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Not according to the anti Bush crowd who ignore any threat until that threat actually turns into action.
    And maybe not even then.
    Given the threat posed by whackos (be they leaders of states or non-governmental entities) with WMDs, especially nuclear WMDs, to not act pre-emptively against said whackos is criminally irresponsible.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hardly. Nothing we actually had justified going in.
    Read the Iraq Liberation Act and the Resolution authorizing the removal of Saddam Hussein as to the reasons. It was non partisan in both cases and only became partisan when things turned bad in the early years showing true politics and posturing to be in the right side of the issue. GW Bush was re-elected after the invasion of Iraq and never got the true credit for winning the war in Iraq and keeping us safe for 7 years after 9/11. Only a naive, gullible liberal would continue to try and re-write history and ignore how killing terrorists in Iraq kept them from coming here.

    You have always said that Iraq was a civil war and yet in a true civil war there would have been massive killings not isolated bombings. You seem to gleefully point to Iraq casualties figures which cannot be confirmed or even verified as to civilian casualties or even if those were true civilians killed.

    Nothing is going to change your mind on this issue but to continue to dwell on it today serves no purpose. Let me know when Obama pulls the troops out of Iraq, when he changes his Sec. of Defense, and when he actually changes the "Bush Doctrine" on Iraq

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hardly. Nothing we actually had justified going in.
    On the contrary. What we had very much justified going in.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Read the Iraq Liberation Act and the Resolution authorizing the removal of Saddam Hussein as to the reasons. It was non partisan in both cases and only became partisan when things turned bad in the early years showing true politics and posturing to be in the right side of the issue. GW Bush was re-elected after the invasion of Iraq and never got the true credit for winning the war in Iraq and keeping us safe for 7 years after 9/11. Only a naive, gullible liberal would continue to try and re-write history and ignore how killing terrorists in Iraq kept them from coming here.

    You have always said that Iraq was a civil war and yet in a true civil war there would have been massive killings not isolated bombings. You seem to gleefully point to Iraq casualties figures which cannot be confirmed or even verified as to civilian casualties or even if those were true civilians killed.

    Nothing is going to change your mind on this issue but to continue to dwell on it today serves no purpose. Let me know when Obama pulls the troops out of Iraq, when he changes his Sec. of Defense, and when he actually changes the "Bush Doctrine" on Iraq
    Again, I have read it. Saddam wasn't a good guy and his eventual removal would be a positive. But to do so in the most costly way, a way in which two presidents before Bush jr knew better than to do, wasn't necessary, and nothing in that act justified going in.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    On the contrary. What we had very much justified going in.
    I can to do this. No, we didn't.

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