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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

  1. #161
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The form of the Iraqi government was not a major concern with him, or anything that would change what he wanted.
    So says you. OBL says otherwise.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Slow up there, Zyph.

    According to someone who was there, candidate Bush was saying "IRAQ!" two years before 9/11.

    Oh, but there's more...

    Again, according to someone who was there, President Bush was saying "IRAQ!" at his very first security meeting, well before 9/11

    So, y'know, I'm just sayin'...
    Yes, wonderful job refuting the end statement of my sentence while completely disregarding context. Amazing job. What I said:

    "First, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before doing anything with Iraq so its not like he woke up the night after and said "IRAQ!""

    What you countered

    "so its not like he woke up the night after and said "IRAQ!"

    See, countering the second part without taking it in context is kind of pointless. He didn't wake up and go "IRAQ" and we invaded it.

    Unless you have some link showing me how we invaded Iraq 2 years earlier than we actually did.

    I'd love to see that link.

    Otherwise, no, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before jumping up invading Iraq.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, wonderful job refuting the end statement of my sentence while completely disregarding context. Amazing job. What I said:

    "First, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before doing anything with Iraq so its not like he woke up the night after and said "IRAQ!""

    What you countered

    "so its not like he woke up the night after and said "IRAQ!"

    See, countering the second part without taking it in context is kind of pointless. He didn't wake up and go "IRAQ" and we invaded it.

    Unless you have some link showing me how we invaded Iraq 2 years earlier than we actually did.

    I'd love to see that link.

    Otherwise, no, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before jumping up invading Iraq.
    Now you have gone and "done it" confused Glinda with facts. Those with BDS hate that and prefer instead to live in their little world of conspiracy and misery.

    there is no evidence that Bush started talking about invading Iraq after taking office but that won't change the minds of those who always want to divert from the current situation in this country to the past. It is easier placing blame on the past than accepting the failures of the present.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Now you have gone and "done it" confused Glinda with facts. Those with BDS hate that and prefer instead to live in their little world of conspiracy and misery.

    there is no evidence that Bush started talking about invading Iraq after taking office but that won't change the minds of those who always want to divert from the current situation in this country to the past. It is easier placing blame on the past than accepting the failures of the present.
    Conservative, you should probably check facts before you comment on someone else.

    I did not say that Bush didn't start TALKING about it, I said he didn't DO it. There is evidence that at the very least it was possible Bush had considered it prior to being elected and after being elected. That said, the sources are questionable in regards to motives and even more without full context of the situation at the time they were stated they're rather hollow quotes. However, I've made no comment as to whether or not Bush had desires or statements of wishing to go into Iraq. I'm only stating that its not like Bush invaded Iraq immedietely following 9/11.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Conservative, you should probably check facts before you comment on someone else.

    I did not say that Bush didn't start TALKING about it, I said he didn't DO it. There is evidence that at the very least it was possible Bush had considered it prior to being elected and after being elected. That said, the sources are questionable in regards to motives and even more without full context of the situation at the time they were stated they're rather hollow quotes. However, I've made no comment as to whether or not Bush had desires or statements of wishing to go into Iraq. I'm only stating that its not like Bush invaded Iraq immedietely following 9/11.


    Any incoming President would talk about any potential problem in the world with Iraq being part of that discussion. Afterall they have been shooting at your planes since the end of the Gulf War. You correctly pointed out that he didn't invade Iraq until 2003 or 1 1/2 years after 9/11 and that is the fact lost by most with BDS.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you're right. OBL did not think it would be Iraq. He wanted it to be Afghanistan.
    And he just got Obama to throw 100,000 more troops there..correct? How diesn't that wok out? But, you won't see Scheuer..or yourself(you personally support this Afghan surge) will make the Christmas gift or playing right into Osama Bin Laden's hand here because both of your position are founded on politics and anti-Bushism.

    Now, as for iraq and Afghanistan, Afghanistan made since. You can not find anywhere where I opposed Bush in Afghanistan.
    It made sense.....to invade Afghanistan like Osama wanted us to? And I can find where you opposed Bush in Afghanistan, you mentioned often, JD, that his policy on taking prisoners was unethical and against your moral compass. You opposed his imprisoning terrorists, denied him decisions on what to do with those terrorists, and claimed for the length of the Bush Presidency that Gitmo...not the terrorist infested Taliban regime was the world's worst eyesore. No Sir, I can find where you opposed Bush in Afghansitan.

    Obama is right to focus there. But, no I don't support the surge there. It is the same problem of trying to nation build instead of practically addressing the problems.
    Told me on WS that you did.

    I think you misunderstand his job. He criticized Clinton for a reason. He did not make command decisions, but we did know such an attack was coming.
    To be perfectly fair, Osama snuck 19 terrorists into this country and attacked us on 9-11-01. I actually think it was Scheuer who misunderstood his job. He was focusing on killing Osama abroad, he missed the fact that Osama was trying to kill us here. Oh, I'll agree he was not given proper info, the the agencies weren't sharing info, that much was clear. But, Scheuer missed this boat, reality shows us this much.

    but that merely allowing agencies to share information might well have.
    And who wasn't Scheuer sharing with?

    He was an active agent at the time. He could not give his name. He later resigned because he felt so strongly about this and has spoken publicly repeatedly.
    I feel strongly about it as well. The reason I cannot fathom anyone now taking this incompetent seriously. You do remember his blatherings about Iraq giving access to the Arabian Peninsula to al-Qaeda? Yes?

    I don't follow your point. Was Scheuer given the power to make decisions one who to kill? Largely you don't seem to understand the role analysts and decision makers.
    Don't know. What I do now is that Osama did sneak 19 terrrorists under our noses to kill thousands and that it could have been prevented on several levels. But, the 96-99 head of the OBL desk at the CIA should have known something. And this theory of easier to kill him in Afghanistan....does anyone still believe that much less him? C'mon!
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OBL wanted to wage war with us and remove us from Islamic lands.
    Wanted us in Afghanistan...correct. Where Obama has just sent 100,000 more troops, does this 'goal' of Osama's..of wanting to hurt us, isn't Obama then falling right into Osama's hands?

    Secondly...and Conservative, this is where Boo's argument disintegrates....did Bush's invasion of Iraq "remove us from Islamic lands?" Did it lessen influence on Islamic lands? How could this be a Christmas gift if he wanted us out of Iraq?

    I mean his entire 1998 Fatwa declaring war against the US is about Iraq, he HATED the fact that we were in Iraq, this idea is was a Christmas gift giving them somewhere to attack us, al-Qaeda wasn't in Iraq! They already had a plethora of arenas to attack us, we were already in Iraq flying no fly zones, already in Yemen, the Gulf States, steaming in and out of the Strait of Hormuz, remember...it was our presence in the ME at all Osama was offended by, obviously al-Qaeda already had gifts to attack, both US military and embassy/civilian targets.

    He needed to get us to a place where he could hurt us.
    We were already in Iraq and...can you give us proof this was what he wanted? Do you have his writings or is this Scheuer's guess? In other words, does Osama, through words to his own or us, mention this strategy? At all?

    Saddam would have preferred we left him alone.
    Osama also preferred we leave Iraq alone.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Again...from Osama Bin Laden's 1998 Fatwa......declaring war on the US....rather than reading the incompetent Scheuer, read Osama Bin Laden word for word.

    No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone.

    First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
    Sound like he wants us anywhere near Iraq? Sounds more like he's offended we've already been there for "seven years". Sound like he's needing someone to attack? Already saying we're occupying Islam's holiest places but...needing us to come to Iraq so as to attack us? Uhhhh....yeah.

    If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.
    Some of them actually thinking this occupation of the Peninsula a Christmas gift for yourself and other Jihadists...Big Bin!

    The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless. Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
    Spoken like a true believer and absolute proof he would NOT have considered our invasion in 2003 a "Christmas Gift."

    So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
    What? We're bringing Xmas gifts Osama...like Scheuer and Boo said, we invaded to give you someone to attack....not annihilate your people or humiliate them...we come bearing gifts.

    Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.
    See, the Bush invasion was actually a gift for Israel which saw Saddam Hussein dead. And the larger enemy....the Iranians....this Iraq invasion was their absolute disaster. The Iranian's worst fears...a self determining society, a loss of confidence in the Mullahs...is now their leadership's reality. Two self-determining republics that were once oppressive dictatorships or worse...are now self-determining governments, a brutal assault on militant Islam underway. Israel, is the Xmas gift receiver here.

    The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.
    Again, a man begging for occupation and invasion. Christmas gift theories aside, you need to do homework afore suggesting such silly analysis. I can offer some great reads.
    Last edited by Charles Martel; 01-04-10 at 01:42 PM.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  9. #169
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, wonderful job refuting the end statement of my sentence while completely disregarding context. Amazing job. What I said:

    "First, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before doing anything with Iraq so its not like he woke up the night after and said "IRAQ!""
    And I gave multiple sources that say you're wrong; Bush was "doing something" about Iraq well before 9/11.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    See, countering the second part without taking it in context is kind of pointless. He didn't wake up and go "IRAQ" and we invaded it.

    Unless you have some link showing me how we invaded Iraq 2 years earlier than we actually did. I'd love to see that link.
    A. You're spitting all over your computer screen.

    B. I never said anything about "invading" that's your strawman. Please reread my comments and note that the word isn't there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Otherwise, no, Bush waited 2 years after 9/11 before jumping up invading Iraq.
    Trying to semanticize your way out of it, eh?




    Sincerely, though, dude... exceedingly pathetic attempt. You're usually better than this.

  10. #170
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    And I gave multiple sources that say you're wrong; Bush was "doing something" about Iraq well before 9/11.



    A. You're spitting all over your computer screen.

    B. I never said anything about "invading" that's your strawman. Please reread my comments and note that the word isn't there.



    Trying to semanticize your way out of it, eh?




    Sincerely, though, dude... exceedingly pathetic attempt. You're usually better than this.
    Have you ever had any leadership skills or responsibilities? Why wouldn't a leader not talk about or potentially plan an action against a country that violated the cease fire agreement after the Gulf War and kept shooting at our planes in the no fly zone, had WMD using them on his own people?

    It does appear that there are a lot of naive people here that helped get us into the problem in the first place. When you have dictators like Saddam Hussein those dictators have to be in just about every discussion and it is better being proactive vs. reactive in all dealings with these insane leaders.

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