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Thread: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Misinformation. Most thought Saddam had some left over wmds, not that he was growing and gathering as Bush claimed. And Atta did not train in Iraq.

    German intelligence officials say they have evidence that the suspected ringleader of the 11 September terrorist attacks trained in Afghanistan in 1999 and 2000, according to a US newspaper report.

    BBC NEWS | Americas | Atta 'trained in Afghanistan'

    The Habbush letter, or Habbush memo, is a handwritten message dated July 1, 2001, which appeared to show a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq's Saddam Hussein government. It purports to be a direct communication between the head of Iraqi Intelligence, General Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, to Saddam Hussein, outlining mission training which Mohammed Atta, one of the organizers of the September 11 attacks, supposedly received in Iraq. The letter also claims that Hussein accepted a shipment from Niger, an apparent reference to an alleged uranium acquisition attempt that U.S. President George W. Bush cited in his January 2003 State of the Union address.

    The letter has been widely considered a fabrication since it was first made public in December 2003. In 2008 journalist Ron Suskind claimed that the White House ordered the CIA to create the forgery. Two of Suskind's sources denied having knowledge of anyone in their chain of command ordering the forging the letter[1]. Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi alleged that the Pentagon was behind the forgery. The controversy that erupted as a result of Suskind's allegations has so far led to an investigation by the House Judiciary Committee.[2]

    (snip)

    Doubts

    Investigative journalist Michael Isikoff spoke with current and former US officials, including an Iraqi document expert who was at that time reviewing thousands of Operation Iraqi Freedom documents, all of whom deemed the letter a probable fabrication.[9] "The problem with this, say U.S. law enforcement officials, is that the FBI has compiled a highly detailed time line for Atta's movements throughout the spring and summer of 2001 based on a mountain of documentary evidence, including airline records, ATM withdrawals and hotel receipts. Those records show Atta crisscrossing the United States during this period—making only one overseas trip, an 11-day visit to Spain that didn't begin until six days after the date of the Iraqi memo."

    Isikoff continued: "Ironically, even the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmed Chalabi, which has been vocal in claiming ties between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime, was dismissive of the new Telegraph story. 'The memo is clearly nonsense,' an INC spokesman told Newsweek."

    Habbush letter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    As for Kay:

    On 23 January 2004, the head of the ISG, David Kay, resigned his position, stating that he believed WMD stockpiles would not be found in Iraq. "I don't think they existed," commented Kay. "What everyone was talking about is stockpiles produced after the end of the last Gulf War and I don't think there was a large-scale production program in the nineties." In a briefing to the Senate Armed Services Committee, Kay criticized the pre-war WMD intelligence and the agencies that produced it, saying "It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing." [1] Sometime earlier, CIA director George Tenet had asked David Kay to delay his departure: "If you resign now, it will appear that we don't know what we're doing. That the wheels are coming off."[1]

    Iraq Survey Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As for your list. Saddam had been neutered for years. He was not a treat at the time of the invasion. Nor was he doing anything that would justify the cost.
    You mean "Slam Dunk" Tenet? So let me see if I have this straight, your sources are accurate but anything that is contrary is false?

    You can continue to believe what you want but for some reason cannot explain what Saddam Hussein did with the BILLIONS he got from the Oil for Food Program

    By the way, Wasn't Tenet appointed by the Clinton Administration? And as for the Niger Statement doesn't British intelligence stand by their statement? Then weren't there a lot of reports outside of the Bush Administration that claimed Atta trained in Iraq?

    What this just goes to show is there still is a lot of confusion about the actual facts regarding Iraq yet here we are 7-8 years after the fact and you still want to arguing that issue? With all the problems facing this country is this the best use of your time?
    Last edited by Conservative; 01-03-10 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You mean "Slam Dunk" Tenet? So let me see if I have this straight, your sources are accurate but anything that is contrary is false?

    You can continue to believe what you want but for some reason cannot explain what Saddam Hussein did with the BILLIONS he got from the Oil for Food Program
    You have to use accurate sources. You didn't link yours, so I can say what source you're using. But, I did link mine.

    As for Tenet's comment, remember, it wasn't that Saddam had wmds that was a slam dunk. Even Bush knew the evidence wasn't there (if we take the entire conversation), but that it was a slam dunk that it would work as a rationale. And it did work. People caught the fever and went right over the cliff with Bush.

    Saddam wanted power. he had that. Money gives you power. Nor does anyone I know of think Saddam was pouring is OFF money into wmds or anything of the kind. He lived quite well in a country suffering and crumbling under sanctions. You leap to a conclusion not supported by evidence, again.

  3. #153
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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have to use accurate sources. You didn't link yours, so I can say what source you're using. But, I did link mine.

    As for Tenet's comment, remember, it wasn't that Saddam had wmds that was a slam dunk. Even Bush knew the evidence wasn't there (if we take the entire conversation), but that it was a slam dunk that it would work as a rationale. And it did work. People caught the fever and went right over the cliff with Bush.

    Saddam wanted power. he had that. Money gives you power. Nor does anyone I know of think Saddam was pouring is OFF money into wmds or anything of the kind. He lived quite well in a country suffering and crumbling under sanctions. You leap to a conclusion not supported by evidence, again.
    What we do know is that there was pressure to have the sanctions removed and that support for sanctions was crumbling. There is no way that sanctions could have held forever. Had those sanctions been removed Saddam Hussein had the power and the money to reconstitute his WMD program and there is nothing the west could have done to prevent it. Saddam Hussein with WMD was unacceptable.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have to use accurate sources. You didn't link yours, so I can say what source you're using. But, I did link mine.

    As for Tenet's comment, remember, it wasn't that Saddam had wmds that was a slam dunk. Even Bush knew the evidence wasn't there (if we take the entire conversation), but that it was a slam dunk that it would work as a rationale. And it did work. People caught the fever and went right over the cliff with Bush.

    Saddam wanted power. he had that. Money gives you power. Nor does anyone I know of think Saddam was pouring is OFF money into wmds or anything of the kind. He lived quite well in a country suffering and crumbling under sanctions. You leap to a conclusion not supported by evidence, again.
    First of all, I apologize for responding to Boo on this thread as my response has nothing to do with the thread topic.

    Secondly, a question, Boo, do you have Bush derangement syndrome that would have you and others divert from the topic of the thread to make this about GW Bush again and again and again? You really need to get over it and focus more on the problems we have today. I really shouldn't have responded with the information I posted and should have posted the links but since this thread isn't about Iraq I will save those links for another day.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Many overestimate how much democracy matters to OBL (who wanted Saddam out as much as we did) and his side.
    Saddam ran a secular dictatorship. OBL believes in a theocratic regime based on shariah law. It's not hard to understand why OBL wanted Saddam out.

    And overestimate just how much freedom and improvement the Iraq people are actually seeing.
    The degree of freedom is irrelevant to the point at hand. The point is that there is now a constitution and elections and man made law all of which OBL despises. Merry Christmas, OBL. Just what you always wanted.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by ScummyD View Post
    Saddam ran a secular dictatorship. OBL believes in a theocratic regime based on shariah law. It's not hard to understand why OBL wanted Saddam out.



    The degree of freedom is irrelevant to the point at hand. The point is that there is now a constitution and elections and man made law all of which OBL despises. Merry Christmas, OBL. Just what you always wanted.
    But he despised Saddam as well. Nothing different here. The form of the Iraqi government was not a major concern with him, or anything that would change what he wanted. It's still a Christmas gift in terms of his goals. In terms of his goals, what you see as a victory is something that really is irrelevant.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But he despised Saddam as well. Nothing different here. The form of the Iraqi government was not a major concern with him, or anything that would change what he wanted. It's still a Christmas gift in terms of his goals. In terms of his goals, what you see as a victory is something that really is irrelevant.
    I am really glad you have nothing to do with the security of my family or anyone else. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden want you dead. Saddam Hussein had the money and the location to do the most damage. He was a great partner with Bin Laden.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am really glad you have nothing to do with the security of my family or anyone else. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden want you dead. Saddam Hussein had the money and the location to do the most damage. He was a great partner with Bin Laden.
    Wow, good to pull up a saying as if it meant something. Care to show they worked together? No one else has been able to show that. If you're going to claim they worked together, I think you should show the evidence that Bush never could.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wow, good to pull up a saying as if it meant something. Care to show they worked together? No one else has been able to show that. If you're going to claim they worked together, I think you should show the evidence that Bush never could.
    Who said they worked together? I said they had the same goals. What part of the enemy of my enemy is my friend do you not understand. Both had a hatred for Israel and the United States. Saddam Hussein paid money to suicide bomber families for murdering Israelis. Abu Zarqawi came to Iraq from Afghanistan and was actually killed their by our military.

    You are just like the Obama Administration, when you find a smoking gun you will claim it was caused by Global warming.

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    Re: Obama considering military strikes after Christmas Day aircraft plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Who said they worked together? I said they had the same goals. What part of the enemy of my enemy is my friend do you not understand. Both had a hatred for Israel and the United States. Saddam Hussein paid money to suicide bomber families for murdering Israelis. Abu Zarqawi came to Iraq from Afghanistan and was actually killed their by our military.

    You are just like the Obama Administration, when you find a smoking gun you will claim it was caused by Global warming.
    No, they didn't have the same goals. While both probably had no love lost for us, Saddam was about staying in power. OBL wanted to wage war with us and remove us from Islamic lands. He needed to get us to a place where he could hurt us. Saddam would have preferred we left him alone.

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