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Thread: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Bureau of Industry and Security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    I aint saying that body scanner technology is on this "sensitive goods and technologies" list, but if it were, then this would be one way for the US to prevent the Dutch and anyone else in getting their hands on the technology since it is made by a US company. And considering the history of the Bush administration in bullying nations to do their bidding, then I would not be surprised one bit that they blocked sale because it was only to be used on US bound flights.

    Among the technologies that have been stopped by the US include encryption software made by US companies. The most well known example is PGP which the US government opened a formal investigation into for exporting illegally but no charges were ever filed. This was mostly because of the reaction of the inventor and the old term.. the cat is out of the bag.
    WTH? You have no idea if anything in your claim is true, but if it were.... Well guess what, if the dog hadn't stopped to crap he would have caught the rabbit.

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Just a few minutes with google would have solved this mystery:

    Detroit terror attack: delay over airport X-ray scanners 'risking lives' - Telegraph

    BBC News - Dutch press EU to adopt passenger scanners

    It's not the US that is preventing implementation in Europe - it's the EU.
    Well that explains it some what if it is true. If the article in the OP is correct then there was some sort of blocking by the Bush administration, else the whole article is false, which is highly doubtful. I may not like the Times but it has never to my knowledge published a fully false report on something. So there has to be something about what they are writing. But lets look on.

    As for the EU part.. that would be far more logical up to a point. As you can read there are serious privacy issues with such scanners. I am glad that someone takes privacy and the rights of the individual seriously in an age where government tends to piss on both in the pursuit of the holy grail of "security".

    As it says in the BBC link

    Privacy concerns have delayed adoption of the scanners at EU airports.
    But as usual the Telegraph miss interprets the whole situation and frankly is highly biased. It goes after the EU for "slowing down" the implementing of the scanners, but does not explain why. You have to go to the BBC article for a much more balanced view on the situation.

    But if you read the BBC article, you would see that it IS the US that slowing down the scanners for US flights.

    Schiphol's scanners are only used for European flights, and the US "still has to agree on the privacy issue," Ms Snoerwang said. "But this incident may make that quicker," she added.
    So yes, the US has delayed the implementation of scanners for US flights, not the EU so your attempt to debunk my claim has some what failed. So the Telegraph article is biased and false, where as the Times article is much closer to the truth.

    And lets not forget, these scanners would most likely NOT have spotted the crotch bomb of the Christmas day bomber.

    And lets not forget, that most US airports also dont have these scanners because of... the same privacy issues that are delaying them in the EU.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    WTH? You have no idea if anything in your claim is true, but if it were.... Well guess what, if the dog hadn't stopped to crap he would have caught the rabbit.

    .
    No I dont, but the article in question does not explain much on why and how the US "stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners". Using this restrictive laws by the US for such matters is only logical and has been used before to attempt to stop the spread of high technology. That is why I brought it up.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No I dont, but the article in question does not explain much on why and how the US "stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners". Using this restrictive laws by the US for such matters is only logical and has been used before to attempt to stop the spread of high technology. That is why I brought it up.
    To be correct, you should have said That is why I made it up.

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Before making comment on who is to blame for what I want to know whether having or not having this type of technology in place would have detected this type of BOMB. Can you tell this type of BOMB from "Depends" and what if the Depends has a full load on board when passing through the detector? Then think about the poor person who gets the task of checking to see which kind of bomb the seemingly suspicious mass is. Naturally man made or chemical.

    Technology should be used and consideration for personal privacy will have to take a back seat to safety for now.

    In this case the people who allowed this crazy on the plane are to blame and heads should role over it, Homeland Security idiot in Chief Napolitano should be fired along with her BOSS for not calling the radical Muslim terrorists what they are.

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    To be correct, you should have said That is why I made it up.

    .
    No. Without facts one must speculate, and that is what I did. It is a fully valid reason as it has been used before to block and delay the transfer of "technology" to other countries.

    In fact go to

    U. S. Bureau of Industry and Security

    and you will see what is required to have an export license.... yes, the US has licences on certain goods to be exported.

    In fact when IBM sold its PC division to the Chinese, it had to comply with Federal requirements on security at IBM plants in the US where Levono employees were to be stationed. The levono employees had to be housed in separate secure areas of the IBM campus to win approval.

    So it is very real when it comes to technology exports from the US.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No. Without facts one must speculate, and that is what I did. It is a fully valid reason as it has been used before to block and delay the transfer of "technology" to other countries.

    In fact go to

    U. S. Bureau of Industry and Security

    and you will see what is required to have an export license.... yes, the US has licences on certain goods to be exported.

    In fact when IBM sold its PC division to the Chinese, it had to comply with Federal requirements on security at IBM plants in the US where Levono employees were to be stationed. The levono employees had to be housed in separate secure areas of the IBM campus to win approval.

    So it is very real when it comes to technology exports from the US.
    But you were making a very illogical leap from controls based on security reasons and extending it to institute controls for political purposes -- something which you have not been able to show.
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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Bureau of Industry and Security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    I aint saying that body scanner technology is on this "sensitive goods and technologies" list, but if it were, then this would be one way for the US to prevent the Dutch and anyone else in getting their hands on the technology since it is made by a US company. And considering the history of the Bush administration in bullying nations to do their bidding, then I would not be surprised one bit that they blocked sale because it was only to be used on US bound flights.

    Among the technologies that have been stopped by the US include encryption software made by US companies. The most well known example is PGP which the US government opened a formal investigation into for exporting illegally but no charges were ever filed. This was mostly because of the reaction of the inventor and the old term.. the cat is out of the bag.
    You have credit sources to support this?
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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But you were making a very illogical leap from controls based on security reasons and extending it to institute controls for political purposes -- something which you have not been able to show.
    There is no difference between control based on security reasons or political. What you see as a security reason is in reality a political reason since it is the politicians that have to approve said "security reason" and that is political always. That is why the US has export licensing to prevent that countries or people that are politically opposed in some way to the US get their hands on sensitive technology (not that it stops anything). The US bans exports to Iran for political reasons not security. That it claims security reasons does not change the fact that the original reason was due to a political retaliation against the Mullahs for the embassy hijacking. Same for Cuba. It is not security reasons that Cuba is blockaded.. it is political.

    In this case it could easily be some sort of software or technology in the body scanners that would fall under the rules for getting export licence. Saying that, exporting to Holland should not be a problem since it is seen as a safe place, where as to Nigeria.. well.

    I am no expert on the technology, but I am pointing out that all technology from the US is subject to the rules and regulation by the Federal government when it comes to export even to Europe and that could be a reason for the US delaying the implementation in Europe. And with the lack of information in the OP article about why, then it is a very valid explanation along with the privacy explanation... which is also political btw.

    That is why for a large part of the late 1990s and early part of this century, the PGP software (private encryption) was in 2 versions.. one for the US market and one for the rest of the world. The US market version was more advanced and forbidden for export. That the inventor got pissed and bypassed all the regulations and gave the technology free is another matter

    So the US attempts to control technology is very real even if you dont seem to believe it. And yes full body scanners are high tech
    PeteEU

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    Re: US 'stopped Dutch installation of full body scanners

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is no difference between control based on security reasons or political.
    Do you HONESTLY believe this?!?!?
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