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British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

Plato said:
This is a barbaric act, a reflection of China's backwardness, a result of China flexing its muscles as an emerging global power and a worrying indication of China's hardline leadership emerging as they position themsleves for the Hu-Wen succession.

The standard of China's legal system is appalling. Of couse the Chinese communist party will receive comfort from the rightwing conservatives who agree with killing mentally ill people. Of couse Western conservatives finding common cause with repressive regimes on law and order issues is no great surprise.
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Will I agree that it's a barbaric thing they did to say all Western Conservative's agree and support this is one false and second out right lie.
 
jamesrage said:
Do you feel sorry for Christians who are executed for proselytizing in communist countries and other dictatorships
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Yes. While perhaps they do know the risks and engage in it anyway, the belief and expression of religion is a base human right and people should be allowed to freely exercise it. Not be thrown in jail or even killed over it. That's not a just action. While I would have less sympathy for a drug dealer than a religious preacher, the death penalty in general should be avoided.
 
Scorpion89 said:
Quilty of what accourding to what the Chinese said. A 1/2 trail wow maybe we in here in the United states should start using Red China's way's.
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Yeah imagine if the United States started to imprison and torture people with no evidence against them.
 
Partisan said:
Hmmmm.....4 kilos of smack in a suitcase, no evidence there....:roll:
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I think it was a general comment towards China's treatment of their criminals. Still, even with the heroin the man still deserved his day in court with fair representation and defense.
 
Ikari said:
I think it was a general comment towards China's treatment of their criminals. Still, even with the heroin the man still deserved his day in court with fair representation and defense.
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It was considered fair in China.....;)
I think that people that live in the U.S. have no concept of the fact that the more population you have, the cheaper life gets....;)
You could kill a million Chinese & it wouldn't be a blip statisically....;)
 
Red_Dave said:
Yeah imagine if the United States started to imprison and torture people with no evidence against them.
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Oh I see you are that kind of Red. To you every question is determined by the position of the United States. You could not perhaps comprehend of a policy of barbarism by the United States and the People's Republic of China, because that's what capital punishment is?

The United States at least has a system of justice that leaves China's in the shade. In the USA judiciual murder at least takes place after extensive legal proceedings and even though these often prove to be less than perfect they are nothing compared to the 1 to 2 hours that you get in PRC.

Of course you could be defending sovereign nations right to do what they like to human beings who step within their borders, answerable to no-one. So which "red" ideology is that one then? The one that respects the concept of "nations"? Maybe it's the "enemy's enemy is my friend" approach that the Right used to use, but in this case it's China who is your enemy's friend so you defend them come what may.

This is the modern left? Good to see they are so irrelevant.
 
Partisan said:
It was considered fair in China.....;)
I think that people that live in the U.S. have no concept of the fact that the more population you have, the cheaper life gets....;)
You could kill a million Chinese & it wouldn't be a blip statisically....;)
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I don't care what China considers fair. China isn't fair, it's a horrible government built on the oppression of its people, the proliferation of its own power, and despot actions and murder. What they consider "fair" is irrelevant.
 
Ikari said:
I think it was a general comment towards China's treatment of their criminals. Still, even with the heroin the man still deserved his day in court with fair representation and defense.
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Unlike those who survived extraordinary rendition. That was my point. If we applied scorpions standards the U.S a fairly large chunk of the world would have the right to invade it by now.
 
jamesrage said:
That is the law in China. Do you feel sorry for Christians who are executed for proselytizing in communist countries and other dictatorships or do you think that person knew the risk so why are they complaining? Its like sticking your hand through a fence to pet a dog when there is a beware of dog sign clearly posted on the fence or that the dog is trying to bite at your through the fence. I guess it could be looked at that these people died doing that they wanted to do or it could be looked at that they are idiots who knowingly did something stupid and therefore assumed all risks to commit those crimes.
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Apart from you fantasizing about Christians being killed in communist countries (what on earth are you talking about?), of course liberals feel sorry for those who are persecuted (in islamoic countries for example). In fact, much more than "sorry" but outraged. That's why we have organizations like Amnesty International, who campaign for prisoners of conscience every day, including large numbers who are imprisoned for their religioius beliefs.

Do you not feel sorry? Do you think it is right for Christians to be persecuted for prosletyzing their religion in a country just because there is a law against it? In fact you will usually find that there is not a law against it. Peoiple are persecuted mostly on trumped up charges of subversion or spying. Even in this case, China does not officially execute insane people. This is happening in order to demonstrate the national power of China in the face of other foreign powers like Britain. They are beholden to no-one.

There are no human standards, Confucian, Christian, Marxist or whatever that can justify the slaughter of a man that didn't know what he was doing and was duped by others. This is amoral authoritarian Chinese legalism and nationalist power politics. It is no surprise to me james that you agree with it.
 
Partisan said:
It was considered fair in China.....;)
I think that people that live in the U.S. have no concept of the fact that the more population you have, the cheaper life gets....;)
You could kill a million Chinese & it wouldn't be a blip statisically....;)
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This is racist horsecrap. To a Chinese person a life is as precious as it is to a Western person.

To an authoritarian nationalist politicians, of any race, lives are expendable for many reasons, either to satisfy their own personal hang ups by enabling surrogate vengeance or as a means of projecting their power.
 
Plato said:
Apart from you fantasizing about Christians being killed in communist countries (what on earth are you talking about?),
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It definitely happens, it happened in China against on of the mega-churches there recently. And don't you dare try it in North Korea. Lots of places still persecute and discriminate based on religious belief and action.
 
Plato said:
Oh I see you are that kind of Red. To you every question is determined by the position of the United States. You could not perhaps comprehend of a policy of barbarism by the United States and the People's Republic of China, because that's what capital punishment is?

The United States at least has a system of justice that leaves China's in the shade. In the USA judiciual murder at least takes place after extensive legal proceedings and even though these often prove to be less than perfect they are nothing compared to the 1 to 2 hours that you get in PRC.

Of course you could be defending sovereign nations right to do what they like to human beings who step within their borders, answerable to no-one. So which "red" ideology is that one then? The one that respects the concept of "nations"? Maybe it's the "enemy's enemy is my friend" approach that the Right used to use, but in this case it's China who is your enemy's friend so you defend them come what may.

This is the modern left? Good to see they are so irrelevant.
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Well my ideal economic system would be something like a combination of [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism]Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] or maybe [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributionism]Distributism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] but thats a subject ild be happy to disscuss in the economics forum. I haven't paid much attention to political economics for a while though as international relations is more my thing these days. Perhaps a name change is in order...

Anyhow if i had my way the arms embargo on China would be reapplied so im not condoning China here. Ive condoned violence against the Chinese government at least once on here so this cant be emphasized enough. My comments should be viewed in the context of what Scorpion said. I.E that the UK should declare war on China for putting one of its citizens to death (justly in a De Jure sense if not a moral one). My only point is that if we were to tally up the amount of people killed tortured or imprisoned as a result of U.S policies then that would justify a lot of invasions.

This isn't about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" this is about applying the same standards to ourselves as we do to our enemies. People are frequently killed in Colombia for joining trade unions and Colombia still gets military aid. Maybe we should look closer to home.

And once more this guy had bipolar, he wasnt retarded. Can we not be so intellectually lazy with these conditions? Its very patronizing.
 
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Plato said:
Do you not feel sorry?
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No because they know the risks and therefor accept those risks.

Do you think it is right for Christians to be persecuted for prosletyzing their religion in a country just because there is a law against it?
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I do not think its right. But at the same ime you have no room to complain when you willingly go to such a country and commit what that country considers a crime there.


Even in this case, China does not officially execute insane people.
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Perhaps China does not buy into the idiotic notion that you should be lenient on someone just because the criminal or some quacks claim the criminal is insane.

It is no surprise to me james that you agree with it.
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I never said I agree with what China did. Even though I think certain drugs should stay illegal I do not think it is a execution worthy offense. The fact some quacks claim the person is insane is irrelvent to the fact he committed what that country considers a crime.
 
Plato said:
This is racist horsecrap. To a Chinese person a life is as precious as it is to a Western person.

To an authoritarian nationalist politicians, of any race, lives are expendable for many reasons, either to satisfy their own personal hang ups by enabling surrogate vengeance or as a means of projecting their power.
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I beg to differ....;)
Go to any third world country, life is cheap & expendable....;)
 
Partisan said:
I beg to differ....;)
Go to any third world country, life is cheap & expendable....;)
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I go to China a lot; it is not a third world country.

Have you ever been to a third world country?
 
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The position of the UK government is very clear. A statement has been made by the UK government that even though it disgrees with China and the USA about the deathj penalty, this case had special circumstances because, despite twenty seven representations by Britain, including one at Prime Ministerial level, this Briton had been denied a medical assesmment as part of the judicial process. This is unacceptable, siad the minister.

He is absolutely 100% right. China has failed in its basic duty of human rights towards a British citizen. It is a disgrace. Those who do not see it like that are undermining the principles of universal human rights. Pure and simple.
 
B L Zeebub said:
China commited 72 % of all state sanctioned murders in the world last year.

This man would not have been put to death even by Dubya!

He has not got the mental ability to recognise right from wrong.
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Wrong there with regards to Dubya who as Governor of Texas sanctioned the execution of a man who was mentally ill.

We only have the word of the family to suggest that this guy suffered Bi-polar disorder and even if he did, what of it?

4 Kg of Heroin can cause an awful lot of damage.

Anyone found to be smuggling Illegal drugs should be executed.
 
Plato said:
The position of the UK government is very clear. A statement has been made by the UK government that even though it disgrees with China and the USA about the deathj penalty, this case had special circumstances because, despite twenty seven representations by Britain, including one at Prime Ministerial level, this Briton had been denied a medical assesmment as part of the judicial process. This is unacceptable, siad the minister.

He is absolutely 100% right. China has failed in its basic duty of human rights towards a British citizen. It is a disgrace. Those who do not see it like that are undermining the principles of universal human rights. Pure and simple.
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Payback for the Opium Wars.....;)
 
Ikari said:
That is, unfortunately, quite the possible scenario. I wouldn't trust China with anything.
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You apparently do trust them to hold your Country's debt.
 
jujuman13 said:
You apparently do trust them to hold your Country's debt.
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Considering their manipulation of the currency market by subsidizing the purchase of our debt in our money, no I do not trust them in the least.
 
Partisan said:
Yes......;)
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Is changing my quote within the rules of this forum?

Clearly your monosylabic response and the alteration of what I said (in quotes) means that you are not interested in serious discussion.

Probably a wise decision on your part.
 
Plato said:
Is changing my quote within the rules of this forum?

Clearly your monosylabic response and the alteration of what I said (in quotes) means that you are not interested in serious discussion.

Probably a wise decision on your part.
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My response wasn't monosyllabic;)
 
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