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Thread: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The PRC has veto power. We ALL have the right to impose sanctions on China by limiting as much as possible our economic interactions with the country. I only purchase things made in China if I have no other reasonable alternative -- which actually, if you look hard enough, there are alternatives out there for almost anything... for example: none of the clothes I am wearing at this moment were made in China, my computer was made in Taiwan as was my monitor and most of the accessories on my computer were made in Malaysia...
    Take a look at Walmart. Its china's dumping ground.

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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The PRC has veto power. We ALL have the right to impose sanctions on China by limiting as much as possible our economic interactions with the country. I only purchase things made in China if I have no other reasonable alternative -- which actually, if you look hard enough, there are alternatives out there for almost anything... for example: none of the clothes I am wearing at this moment were made in China, my computer was made in Taiwan as was my monitor and most of the accessories on my computer were made in Malaysia...
    I don't think this is the answer. Look in China there are millions of people with access to media sources and there are opinion makers and bureaucrats susceptible to international opinion, whatever the bluster about "no-one has the right to comment on China's internal affairs" nonsense.

    The solution is for the international community (the democracies) to speak with one united voice on these issues. China knows how to play divide and rule with Western nations, and the UK will be a conscious victim of that here. China needs and wants to emerge into the world as a player. Sometimes the new kid needs a bit of a talking to as we help him to do that.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Take a look at Walmart. Its china's dumping ground.
    No Wal-Marts in the country where I live (thank God) and Costco imports enough products from other countries (many of the clothes there are imported from countries other than China, for example) that I am able to stay at least 90% China-free.
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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    I don't think this is the answer. Look in China there are millions of people with access to media sources and there are opinion makers and bureaucrats susceptible to international opinion, whatever the bluster about "no-one has the right to comment on China's internal affairs" nonsense.

    The solution is for the international community (the democracies) to speak with one united voice on these issues. China knows how to play divide and rule with Western nations, and the UK will be a conscious victim of that here. China needs and wants to emerge into the world as a player. Sometimes the new kid needs a bit of a talking to as we help him to do that.
    What access are you talking about? Haven't you seen how the Great Firewall of China is getting more and more sophisticated -- so much so that many of the proxies that had been used to bypass it are no longer effective? Fact is that for the vast majority of China's people, there are no options for news outside the official state-party controlled media sources.
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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    What access are you talking about? Haven't you seen how the Great Firewall of China is getting more and more sophisticated -- so much so that many of the proxies that had been used to bypass it are no longer effective? Fact is that for the vast majority of China's people, there are no options for news outside the official state-party controlled media sources.
    It's a complex subject. There are widespread discussions in China about issues and the Party line does generally prevail. But there is also curiosity as to how the West can act in a certain way and a thirst for understanding that goes beyond the China good, West bad totalitarian paradigm. And the elites, where the power struggle will happenl, certainly have access to information and news. This will be discussed on CCTV and there will be a feeble attempt to put the Western point of view before criticizing it. That's why the message should be simple: the world expects its visitors to China, who are accused of a crime, to be given a fair trial according to international standards. Make that case and they can go on about the opium wars all they like, certain Chinese people will see through this victimology approach to the issue.

    And as I say I think there are a lot of people in China who instinctively distrust the government. Nearly everyone I have met in China knows that the government is corrupt and why Party offiicals are rich. there is tremendous cynicism. Nonetheless there is also tremendous nationalism and xenophobia, whipped up by the party to keep people in line.

    The trick in China is to take the long view. Remember when Zhou Enlai was asked whether he thought the French Revolution was a success, he replied "it is far too early to say" nearly two hundred years later. A consistent, oft repeated, principled position by the democracies will eventually pierce the walls that the traditionalists in the CCP put up. As has been said, a middle class will grow up that demands liberty at some stage. That class will complete the task of synthesizing confucian and liberal values, I believe.
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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    The botom line is China is a communist nation and don't expect China to have USA type constitution.

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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The botom line is China is a communist nation and don't expect China to have USA type constitution.
    The thing is, that it does actually have quite a liberal constitution. It just doesn't abide by it.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Governments in the democratic world use statistics and studies whose sources are traceable and thus can be subjected to criticism. That's democracy.
    Actually, again to stress precision, that's an example of integrity in Bureaucracy, and would be so in a Theocratic Dictatorship administered by a computer program posing as a divinity.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 12-31-09 at 10:39 PM.
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    Re: British man said to be mentally ill executed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I'm against capitol punishment and I'm for legalization of drugs, but to say that someone isn't responsible for their actions because they have bipolar disorder is downright hilarious. There's mental illness and then there's mental illness. Some people are really crazy, but bipolar disorder?!! C'mon. Can I kill anyone I want to if I have a fear of heights?
    Quite possibly, if at the time you are under the influence of mind altering recreational drugs that someone has been so foolish as to legalize.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 12-31-09 at 10:44 PM.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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